Large Europe

[Shepherd]

so, there's still three levels of bonuses? Since they weren't mentioned in TheNoah's last post I thought maybe we were down to much more sensible two. It resolves the problem I brought up, I guess, though I'm still underwhelmed. So much of what's going on with this map seems arbitrary - though less so than it did - and I'm not a huge fan of having so many dead areas. Having a region that doesn't factor into a bonus is fine so long as there's another reason for that region to be in play. Cyrus, Andorra, Ireland et. al. are meaningless regions until somebody has the rest of the macro-command, which in the case of Andorra will be once the game is already over.

 

[Sebrim]

There still are three layers:

The capitals - the national bonuses and the supernational bonuses

Those last ones are a bit like Asia in Classic evolved or Soviet Union in Cold War Europe - noone ever gets them, until the game is already over

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Yeah, those 'regional' or as Seb called them, 'supernational' bonuses seem like a waste to even include. I think they could be dropped entirely.

 

[OneEyed]

this is very good map idea. it would be harm to let it die.

OneEyed

 

[riskyone]

Looking forward to the final design and testing. Good work OneEyed and those that offered advice.

 

[Shepherd]

Can I throw an idea into the mix? Lose the uber-commands, and get more creative with the way the commands are structured.

For example, the countries that don't fit neatly into a command could supplement other bonuses . In the example below, Switzerland adds +1 to the bonus for holding Germany, Italy, or France; suddenly Switzerland becomes valuable in the middle rounds of games as players have established their territory.

The impassables don't really make sense yet, but we can get there.

 

[LordAdef]

Can there be river connections as in the South America map? That is a super feature and Europe has famous rivers with may cities scattered around them.

.....and England is not in Europe! pun intended

 

[OneEyed]

Looking forward to the final design and testing. Good work OneEyed and those that offered advice.

its thenoahw´s idea and good work. I just helped with some corrections.

OneEyed

PS: I like your idea Shepherd, will wait what thenoahw will says.

 

[thenoahw]

If you all think that dropping the regional bonuses would be better then I think that would be fine. I just thought that it would encourage people to move beyond the easily taken nation bonuses and take nearby nations to consolidate into a region bonus on top of that. I would really like to see the regions kept on the table as a possibility at the least.

And I like the changes made to the sea routes.

 

[thenoahw]

Also, if we cut out the regional commands as you guys suggest, would we be able to include more nation commands? Because so many potential nation commands were taken out before and labeled as extras because I was told that if we were going to have region commands then the nation count had to stay low. Would this allow us to include more nations such as belarus and portugal and Belenux?

 

[Shepherd]

Also, if we cut out the regional commands as you guys suggest, would we be able to include more nation commands?

I'd say try to make every region part of some type of bonus, if it's logical. In the example I posted a few days ago I assumed every color was a command.

 

[OneEyed]

I'd say try to make every region part of some type of bonus, if it's logical. In the example I posted a few days ago I assumed every color was a command.

maybe making regional commands smaller could helps?
so for example Southern Europe could be divided.
Iberia (with Spain, Portugal as national commands and Andorra as extra).
South Europe (with Italy, Greece as nstional commands and Malta as extra).

I also like Shepherds idea but not with Moldavia as +1 with Ukraine for example. Moldavia is independent state, part of Estern Europe but not part of Ukraine.

OneEyed

the question is will this be "real" map of Europe with commands based on historic, political division of Europe or "sci fi" map divided on anything?

 

[Shepherd]

I had a thought, that would both solve the problem of command complexity and size on this map and be unique to this map.

1. Make every country a command, however small. It might require some pop-out maps, but that's within our game engine's ability.
2. Set the command bonus by the size of the command: 1 or 2 region, +1; 3 or 4 regions, +2; 4 or 5 regions, +3; etc.
3. Make all of the bonuses auto-deployed to the region that is also the country's capital.
4. Any one-region commands will start neutral, obviously.
5. Set the game settings in such a way that no games can have zero reinforcements.

I think this is really elegant, and doesn't require re-drawing the regions from what thenoah currently has. Smaller commands on the periphery - Iceland, Portugal - will seem valuable at first, but since all bonuses are auto-deployed they will be less strategic as the game goes on and people start fighting over the more valuable regions in the center of the map. This is really the way a Europe map should work.

Hmm??

 

[masterjskye]

I think that sounds like a nice twist Shep, I like it.

 

[Sebrim]

+1

 

[Shepherd]

Some areas, however, will be very bonus-heavy. The Balkans, for example...there will be like seven or eight +1 bonuses in a cluster. While I like the idea of just giving every country a bonus, some areas would need to be clustered for practicality of bonuses. I'd say Balkans and BeNeLux - which means we'd need to decide which capital gets the bonus dropped on it. Somebody is sure to be offended.

 

[Shepherd]

Here's what this map would look like if every country were its own bonus with the troops auto-deployed to the capitals. I've taken the liberty of grouping the Baltic States, BeNeLux, and the Balkans; I've also split Austria, Czech Republic, and Hungary to make them two region commands. There are obviously no impassables drawn in as of yet. And I've know I've probably screwed up some of thenoah's intended regions and borders - please speak up if I have.

I can see this being an interesting map to play. We would have to code all of the single-region countries a neutral starts, and I'd suggest also coding one half of each two-region command neutral to avoid games failing to start (game engine issue). But with over 100 regions (somebody else can do the counting - my eyes hurt) I think that would be fine. The benefit of all the neutral starts is that players who rush to grab small bonuses are doing do by attacking neutrals rather than their opponents - I see this as a good thing.

What I like is that the little bonuses are spread out all over the map. Portugal and Andorra in the southwest, Iceland and Ireland northwest, the Caucasus in the east, Cyprus and Malta at the bottom of the map, and a whole bunch of fun little bonuses smack in the middle of the map.

 

[OneEyed]

this looks very good.
just some notices:
Finland could has 4 regions and also Sweden could has 4 regions (or 5).
Bulgaria could be also splited. maybe also Albania so just former Yugoslavia countires will stay there as large bonus.
if in Caucasus is each country capital, why not make the same with Benelux and Baltics?

OneEyed

 

[Sebrim]

Good thing, Shepherd. Some minor points:

a) the Balkans shouldn't be one command. Maybe former Yugoslavia as one, and then Albania as single-tert command and Bulgaria as a double tert command.

b) Then, you could also group the Caucasus states together, as with Benelux and Baltics.

c) The capital of Turkey is Ankara, not Istanbul. The capital of former Yugoslavia was Belgrade, not Sarajevo.

d) I don't like numerous of the sear outes, which don't make sense, but that's nitty gritty and can be dealt with later.

e) +1 to OneEyed's idea of making Sweden and Finland both four regions

 

[smi]

The last iteration of this map seems pretty good! A very nice map to play on! Reminds me of the massive world map, having a lot of nice bottlenecks and open spaces to enrich the gameplay.

Maybe Russia could be split a bit more tho? Its kinda weird having 1 area spanning the same space as 10 other areas.