Roadmap - New Server

[once]

Or you could have an annual 'Season' - as per the football example. That would give players something to compete for, the chance to win annual trophies/medals or whatever, and the chance to have a fresh start every year.

i really like the idea of a 'season', some kind of annual competion / cup that could have its own place on the scoreboard. i think this is all the incentive anyone would need to make an effort to be active? not sure how it would work exactly - whether it would just track earned points in a given season, or come with some requirements like particular kind of games that would need to be played? no idea at this point, but i think it is a great idea that should be explored further.

as for points disappearing after a certain period of time has elapsed - i would prefer that they dont. i dont ever want to be pressured into playing risk in order to maintain a score, i want to be able to set my own pace. also i think it would mute any sense of real progression.

while it is true that anyone with points made those points in a different era, i believe the opportunities to "easily" make points have always been fluctuating and will continue to do so (tournaments is the only thing i can think of really..). the number of active players does not really matter a lot re points, as those only really depend on the number of games you play / win / lose. i am sure tournaments will return & fill at some point again. and highranking players that are willing to engage in games on the site are usually also playing a higher risk gamble / putting a lot more of their points on the line and will eventually lose them. i know from experience that happens a lot quicker and more reliably than gaining them

regarding a scoreboard full of ghosts, the current system should provide a scoreboard with active players only once the rules sheriff mentioned are reinstated (though i do think a legacy scoreboard with all past players and hiscores should also be maintained):

The current rule (as far as I remember)

• Grunts fall off the scoreboard if absent for 45 days
• Strategists fall off if absent for 6 months
• Commanders fall off if absent for 12.

That's more or less the rules as I remember them.

for me personally, when i came to this site a good while ago, i did not think about points in the beginning at all. i just wanted to play risk. maybe occasionally i found myself slightly intimidated by some of the ranks players would have. that i was motivated to rise through the ranks myself came much later, only after i was well hooked on the site already

Not having the games archived visibly to the players subsequent to the end of the game is detrimental. You don't get to see who wins as the game disappears and takes some of the fun out of it. I believe a cadet beating a cadet that has the exact same points would gain 30 points

i agree, but i am pretty sure this feature will also return eventually.

 

[MNatt]

i really like the idea of a 'season', some kind of annual competion / cup that could have its own place on the scoreboard. i think this is all the incentive anyone would need to make an effort to be active? not sure how it would work exactly - whether it would just track earned points in a given season, or come with some requirements like particular kind of games that would need to be played? no idea at this point, but i think it is a great idea that should be explored further.

as for points disappearing after a certain period of time has elapsed - i would prefer that they dont. i dont ever want to be pressured into playing risk in order to maintain a score, i want to be able to set my own pace. also i think it would mute any sense of real progression.

while it is true that anyone with points made those points in a different era, i believe the opportunities to "easily" make points have always been fluctuating and will continue to do so (tournaments is the only thing i can think of really..). the number of active players does not really matter a lot re points, as those only really depend on the number of games you play / win / lose. i am sure tournaments will return & fill at some point again. and highranking players that are willing to engage in games on the site are usually also playing a higher risk gamble / putting a lot more of their points on the line and will eventually lose them. i know from experience that happens a lot quicker and more reliably than gaining them

regarding a scoreboard full of ghosts, the current system should provide a scoreboard with active players only once the rules sheriff mentioned are reinstated (though i do think a legacy scoreboard with all past players and hiscores should also be maintained):



for me personally, when i came to this site a good while ago, i did not think about points in the beginning at all. i just wanted to play risk. maybe occasionally i found myself slightly intimidated by some of the ranks players would have. that i was motivated to rise through the ranks myself came much later, only after i was well hooked on the site already



i agree, but i am pretty sure this feature will also return eventually.

I think I agree with you on most of that. I'm just throwing out ideas - if the scoreboard is next thing to be worked on then I suppose it's 'speak now or forever hold your peace'.

It's easy for the likes of me to say because I don't have to do any of the techy stuff, and I've no idea what's technically hard to do and what's easy. But subject to that, I tend to think the more varieties of scoreboard you have visible the merrier. I agree it's quite nice to have an 'all-time' list visible somewhere on the site (as at present), and also a list showing only active players (as it used to be). I also think it might be good to have additional metrics - e.g an annual 'season', or lists for particular maps/types of game/numbers of players. If people want to compete to win and lose points, the more chances you give them to win/lose the better I think. But, like I say, that's easy for me to say when I'm sat here on my backside and don't have to do the work!

 

[bilsi]

Can't search a player in Scoreboard...get a white screen...

Here's what I get.

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

Bad news. At least in my opinion...

I just talked with Marcos and he described how the points were implement and how to retrieve them.

The process, to say the least... is monumental.

Like everything I've unearthed on this site so far, coding wise, nothing is easy, nothing is simple, and nothing is straightforward. Everything is complicated... and it's really bringing me down...

His estimate was that it would take no less than a month, at 40 hours a week, for someone like him to do the job. Of course, he's not able to work on it, so if I hire someone, you can double that estimate in both cost and timewise.

I just want to get this site to work like it once did, but these huge obstacles are really getting me down. I think that's why I clench my jaw and my tooth cracked.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep on this, and Marcos has been tasked with trying to figure a work around.

More updates when I know it.

 

[genghisknows]

So, if I understand you correctly, sheriff, going with a brand new point system with no legacy points, we can get the site up and running with points much faster? If that is the case, RESET everyone to Cadet 1225 or 0, whichever is quicker to get instituted. Let's not prolong the agony!

 

[MNatt]

If the perfect points system with everything working just like it once did isn't affordable then maybe it simplifies matters. If the people with the relevant technical knowledge are able to advise on what is do-able within whatever the budget is, then (unless someone is willing to put their hand in their pocket) that's the best that can be done.

If that means having points calculated differently, or re-setting the board, or whatever then that's ok.

You just do the best you can with the resources that are available to you - nobody can reasonably ask for any more than that.

I wouldn't stress about it.

 

[bilsi]

Ditch the points.....let's get going.


And why do we have a Beta Games tab? It's the same as Home tab.....

 

[bilsi]

Bad news. At least in my opinion...

I just talked with Marcos and he described how the points were implement and how to retrieve them.

The process, to say the least... is monumental.

Like everything I've unearthed on this site so far, coding wise, nothing is easy, nothing is simple, and nothing is straightforward. Everything is complicated... and it's really bringing me down...

His estimate was that it would take no less than a month, at 40 hours a week, for someone like him to do the job. Of course, he's not able to work on it, so if I hire someone, you can double that estimate in both cost and timewise.

I just want to get this site to work like it once did, but these huge obstacles are really getting me down. I think that's why I clench my jaw and my tooth cracked.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep on this, and Marcos has been tasked with trying to figure a work around.

More updates when I know it.

That's 4800@30 bucks an hour.
You could re-open kickstarter?

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Bad news. At least in my opinion...

I just talked with Marcos and he described how the points were implement and how to retrieve them.

The process, to say the least... is monumental.

Like everything I've unearthed on this site so far, coding wise, nothing is easy, nothing is simple, and nothing is straightforward. Everything is complicated... and it's really bringing me down...

His estimate was that it would take no less than a month, at 40 hours a week, for someone like him to do the job. Of course, he's not able to work on it, so if I hire someone, you can double that estimate in both cost and timewise.

I just want to get this site to work like it once did, but these huge obstacles are really getting me down. I think that's why I clench my jaw and my tooth cracked.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep on this, and Marcos has been tasked with trying to figure a work around.

More updates when I know it.

If I understand correctly what you just said Sheriff, that time, $$, effort, would be to implement the points from games that haven't counted???
If that's the case, then I say DEFINITELY we don't try to do that; the poll is saying NO for the points anyway. Just keep going and continue to get stuff working - get the points to start up again, get the scoreboard working, get medals working (again no need to go back and retro it), get the tournaments working. And anything else that's not working currently, obviously. But I see NO reason to spend time and money on trying to retroactive give points, medals, etc for the time 'lost' while the rebuild was taking place. Just keep going and the hell with points in the past.

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

========

@Cardinalsrule - Yes, I agree. The poll definitely shows it is not as big as a deal as I thought it would be. Gald to see you around.
@bilsi - Yeah, you got the cost estimate more-or-less correct, but no more fundraisers, I feel like I still need to deliver on the last one.
@MNatt - Thanks. We are going to do just that. That fact that most players are okay with whatever happens, is great to know.

=========

Okay, now that the shock has worn off a bit, I think I can approach this with a clear head.

The fact that most players are happy not calculating points for the last couple years is a tremendous help. It gives us options.

We are currently examining 2 solutions.

1. Create the system that Marcos originally intended to implement, which will replay all events from all games, and extract all points, statistics, and anything else we ever may want, either now or in the future.
2. Or amend the current code so that any future games will have their points, stats, and other relevant information stored using the traditional method of writing the values into the database.

For both options we need to consider:

• How much time it will take
• How much money it will cost
• And any other practical pros/cons

I can tell you right now that option 1 will cover all things we never thought of yet. For example, if at some point in the future we want to give a medal to players who captured Australia by rolling double 6's in the 3rd round of a Classic Evolved game, then we can do that.

For option 2, we will only be recording things we can think of now, stats we know we need at this point. It won't be future proof. Meaning that any new ideas we have in the future, (like how many times has a player done this or that) we might not have the data to figure that out unless we happen to record it now. That would be the risk of choosing option 2.

Either way, it's too soon to make a decision. We really need to nail down the cost and time for implementing each, as well as any other pros and cons I haven't mentioned.

Since I'm not a coder, only the middleman, then I'm still learning things and passing them on to you as I learn them. So that's why things I say something change, because sometimes I assume stuff, or speak too soon, or just didn't quite fully understand the situation from the beginning.

I'll try to make another update in a week or as soon as I know more. It's really dependent on how fast Marcos and our Dev team can respond with these estimates.

Meanwhile, there are still improvements in the frontend (UI) that are being done at the moment. The points mentioned above are just regarding the backend (engine), which is a bit more complicated and mysterious. ;-)

As always, thanks and have fun!

 

[Cardinalsrule]

========

@Cardinalsrule - Yes, I agree. The poll definitely shows it is not as big as a deal as I thought it would be. Gald to see you around.
@bilsi - Yeah, you got the cost estimate more-or-less correct, but no more fundraisers, I feel like I still need to deliver on the last one.
@MNatt - Thanks. We are going to do just that. That fact that most players are okay with whatever happens, is great to know.

=========

Okay, now that the shock has worn off a bit, I think I can approach this with a clear head.

The fact that most players are happy not calculating points for the last couple years is a tremendous help. It gives us options.

We are currently examining 2 solutions.

1. Create the system that Marcos originally intended to implement, which will replay all events from all games, and extract all points, statistics, and anything else we ever may want, either now or in the future.
2. Or amend the current code so that any future games will have their points, stats, and other relevant information stored using the traditional method of writing the values into the database.

For both options we need to consider:

• How much time it will take
• How much money it will cost
• And any other practical pros/cons

I can tell you right now that option 1 will cover all things we never thought of yet. For example, if at some point in the future we want to give a medal to players who captured Australia by rolling double 6's in the 3rd round of a Classic Evolved game, then we can do that.

For option 2, we will only be recording things we can think of now, stats we know we need at this point. It won't be future proof. Meaning that any new ideas we have in the future, (like how many times has a player done this or that) we might not have the data to figure that out unless we happen to record it now. That would be the risk of choosing option 2.

Either way, it's too soon to make a decision. We really need to nail down the cost and time for implementing each, as well as any other pros and cons I haven't mentioned.

Since I'm not a coder, only the middleman, then I'm still learning things and passing them on to you as I learn them. So that's why things I say something change, because sometimes I assume stuff, or speak too soon, or just didn't quite fully understand the situation from the beginning.

I'll try to make another update in a week or as soon as I know more. It's really dependent on how fast Marcos and our Dev team can respond with these estimates.

Meanwhile, there are still improvements in the frontend (UI) that are being done at the moment. The points mentioned above are just regarding the backend (engine), which is a bit more complicated and mysterious. ;-)

As always, thanks and have fun!

Yeah, I don't CARE about what we MIGHT think of in the future, I really just want the past stuff, points, medals, scoreboard, tournaments to come back asap. THAT will get this site to where is needs to be, 99%, and attract new members.

 

[matildathehun]

For option 2, we will only be recording things we can think of now, stats we know we need at this point. It won't be future proof. Meaning that any new ideas we have in the future, (like how many times has a player done this or that) we might not have the data to figure that out unless we happen to record it now. That would be the risk of choosing option 2.

My two cents: if you get this off the ground, there is real potential to build the site up and get more money rolling in. If I'm hearing you right, all those stats will be stored somewhere anyway. So if/when you need them and if/when you have the funds to do it, you can worry about developing the code to extract the stats in the future.

Even if those stats won't be stored, who cares? Get a functional site now, build the membership, and worry about more advanced features later.

Again, my two cents -- I don't claim to have "the" answer... lol

-MTH

 

[waldegrave]

Let's do whatever is the cheapest and fastest method of making our games count for points again. Players, new and old, want something to show for their wins. I think it would be best if we continue from our current score so high ranked players don't lose points that have taken years to earn. I like the idea of a separate seasonal leaderboard to keep things fresh, but that could be an extra feature added after the standard scoreboard is up and running.

 

[MNatt]

Let's do whatever is the cheapest and fastest method of making our games count for points again. Players, new and old, want something to show for their wins. I think it would be best if we continue from our current score so high ranked players don't lose points that have taken years to earn. I like the idea of a separate seasonal leaderboard to keep things fresh, but that could be an extra feature added after the standard scoreboard is up and running.

I agree.

If it was easy to come up with an all-singing all-dancing solution then that would be perfect. But since it's not, best to just get on with re-instating the old-style system. We've been playing (or not playing) for the last 2 years on the basis that none of it counted for points, so is there any need to bother with any of the beta-game data? And most of us would be perfectly happy with straight re-instatement of the old points system without any changes anyway. If there are extra features to be added, do that afterwards.

 

[SgtPatton]

I would definately vote for a fresh start. The existing higher ranked players got where they are by winning. Why wouldn't they be enthusiastic to prove themselves once again? What are they really losing, prestige from days gone by? And, I would think for the most part, that those players would not be so selfish so as not to agree to start anew along with a Legacy of historical points for all to view.

Agreed genghis

 

[SgtPatton]

Bad news. At least in my opinion...

I just talked with Marcos and he described how the points were implement and how to retrieve them.

The process, to say the least... is monumental.

Like everything I've unearthed on this site so far, coding wise, nothing is easy, nothing is simple, and nothing is straightforward. Everything is complicated... and it's really bringing me down...

His estimate was that it would take no less than a month, at 40 hours a week, for someone like him to do the job. Of course, he's not able to work on it, so if I hire someone, you can double that estimate in both cost and timewise.

I just want to get this site to work like it once did, but these huge obstacles are really getting me down. I think that's why I clench my jaw and my tooth cracked.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep on this, and Marcos has been tasked with trying to figure a work around.

More updates when I know it.

I am Totally In Favor of dropping the Points (but not the Medals and Achievements) and everyone starting fresh.

Faster, simpler and cheaper. To me there are more game important improvements to do than to salvage how many points I had two years ago and find a fix to adjust for the last year and a half or so.

To me that is behind us. Let's move forward.

 

[BallzDeep]

I've been absent for awhile but checking in from time to time. My .02 for what it's worth, build the new scoring system with everyone starting from scratch. Presumably the current scoreboard is saved in a database somewhere. At some point when time and or $$ allows have the devs create a one time script to load the legacy points into the new database. I've only minimal web development experience but we've had to implement workarounds like that plenty of times on my own site and as long as the data is stored in a somewhat usable database, it's never been overly complicated.

Also, I've always felt the scoreboard should have some sort of decay to it and I think at one point there might have been something in place. Where inactive players would lose points over time or drop off entirely. Keep that incentive to keep coming back to maintain your place on the leader board.

 

[Stormcat]

I am Totally In Favor of dropping the Points (but not the Medals and Achievements) and everyone starting fresh.

Faster, simpler and cheaper. To me there are more game important improvements to do than to salvage how many points I had two years ago and find a fix to adjust for the last year and a half or so.

To me that is behind us. Let's move forward.

I don't have any points to keep or give up, but as long as the current high scores are immortalized on a legacy page, it sure does seem like the easiest thing would be for everyone to start fresh, as long as they get to keep their medals/achievements? They also got to enjoy holding those scores all this time despite possibly losing games that would have affected them. I know that's easy for me to say...

 

[bilsi]

I've been absent for awhile but checking in from time to time. My .02 for what it's worth, build the new scoring system with everyone starting from scratch. Presumably the current scoreboard is saved in a database somewhere. At some point when time and or $$ allows have the devs create a one time script to load the legacy points into the new database. I've only minimal web development experience but we've had to implement workarounds like that plenty of times on my own site and as long as the data is stored in a somewhat usable database, it's never been overly complicated.

Also, I've always felt the scoreboard should have some sort of decay to it and I think at one point there might have been something in place. Where inactive players would lose points over time or drop off entirely. Keep that incentive to keep coming back to maintain your place on the leader board.

Welcome back...

 

[bilsi]

Celebrity sighting...Didn't know where to post...
That's me on the left...