Barbarossa feedback, anyone?

[Shepherd]

I wish Shep were still around... This map wouldn't have been released until it was even and balanced.

I'm playing a test game against myself. Here's my running commentary.

P1 got a good drop in Finland: Finland and Leningrad. Took Karelia with no trouble, and the only enemy region along my borders is the North Baltic ship. Now P2 has to decide whether to waste troops on the ship or work elsewhere and allow P1 to keep the bonus.

P2 got a bad drop; both ships (which are useless to start the game, since they give no bonus and hit no regions of importance) and much of the USSR,which looks impossible to hold early. P2 also had some bad luck with first round rolls. Pretty much screwed already.

P1 got 6 troops for 15 regions and Finland, took Austria easily and it's protected by neutrals.

P2 used all the ship troops and got lucky, took leningrad and broke Finland.

P1 got Finland right back, thanks to the Austria bonus. After 3 turns, it's 45 troops/16 regions to 25 troops/13 regions.

P2 took some territory but isn't in a position to break the commands. 38/14 to 35/15.

P1 chose not to call up reserves (because that would just end the game), but still decimated P2's stack up north. 39/18 to 23/11.

P2 got lucky, took Norway command via the paratroopers. 36/17 to 25/12.

P1 had shit luck, but still broke Norway back by taking Hannover and using the paratroopers. 33/19 to 20/10.

P2 got Norway back, but it's useless at this point.

P1 had to turn in cards; got bad dice.

P2 marches across Europe and breaks Austria!

Hail Player 1 in Round 8.

 

[Shepherd]

here are my thoughts and suggestions:

For starters, it looks good. Nice work by the artist here.

Two-region commands are always problematic, especially if the command is as easy to hold as Finland. Not only are there are two points to hold, but there are only two regions to defend against - once a player also takes Sverland and Leningrad, there's no reason to leave any troops in the entire command. And one of the three Sweden regions will likely be a neutral in most games, P1 got lucky that the bordering region (Sverland) was a neutral. So P1 had a 2-region +1 command by the end of round 1 with only one point to hold, and only one region that could attack that point.

My suggestion here: either give Finland a second border, such as N. Baltic Ship or Estonia, or allow Moscow to bomb Finland.

It's confusing that Finland is the name of both a region and a command. That's an easy fix.

As I said above, the ships are useless to start the game, since they give no bonus and hit no regions of importance.

The ships could start neutral, as 2s. Don't put somebody at a disadvantage if they happen to have their troops wasted there. If somebody wants to use them to hit their opponent's flank, neutral 2s would be easy to slice through later in the game. I haven't counted regions to see what that does to starts.

Also, the fact that you can't see the attack routes from the ships on the map is frustrating. It seems like the southern baltic should be able to hit Latvia, but it can't - I see the color difference now, but i didn't notice that right away and it screwed up how I was planning to reinforce.

Denmark has the same problem as Finland; there are only two regions from which it can be attacked, which makes it easy to expand and hold.

I think that a link between Jutland and S. Norway would be interesting. They are both already border regions so it isn't a fundamental change to the map, but means Jutland is vulnerable in two directions instead of just one. And those are two commands likely to be controlled early. A connection lets those players duke it out or agree to a truce.

The USSR is largely useless. It's too hard to take and hold early, especially since whoever has Finland will want to hold Leningrad. It's nice that Moscow can do some bombing, but honestly the places it can bomb are not strategically significant. Germany is also too big to hold and Poland has too many borders to hold. The +1 auto deploys are a nice touch.

I never ran into the problem of Scandinavia being too easy to hold, since the game was over so early. The block of Norway-Sweden-Denmark is nine regions (including N. Germany as the line of defense) with three borders and +4. I don't think that's unreasonable, as it's like Africa on the classic R*sk map.

The larger problem is that whoever starts strong up there has an easy march to more bonuses. If you don't add more borders to defend, consider adding more ways to hit those three border regions. Right now, there are only four regions from which you can break that block, and two of the border regions have only one route in. And ss the player marches out, holding the four Northern commands (and +5) by controlling only three borders seems too easy. Adding a second way to break Finland would fix this.

I'll say again that the ships seem pretty useless. They don't hit any strategically significant regions. If you don't want to make them neutral starts, I'd suggest giving them each a route into Scandinavia. Or make them neutral starts AND give them each an attack route north. Allowing the S. Baltic to hit Gotaland or Scania and letting the N. Batlic attack Finland would, in my opinion, go a long way to opening this map up.

Alright, that's it for me. Glad to see the site is still up and running - and adding content.

 

[Lulzim]

Nice to see you around.

For starters, it looks good. Nice work by the artist here.

Thx, glad you liked it

allow Moscow to bomb Finland

I really like this suggestion. + German plane can 1way-attack two regions while USSR plane can bomb 2 regions, there is advantage for German plane because can move troops. By adding one more region to bomb by USSR plane then they are more equal i guess.

The ships could start neutral, as 2s

Sounds as a good solution, you explained it well

the fact that you can't see the attack routes from the ships on the map is frustrating

Haha not for me, or if you look at the brief. Maybe not for you too after the first game. Shouldnt it be more frustrating in other maps where you dont have colored ports???

I think that a link between Jutland and S. Norway would be interesting

It was suggested before i think. It will fix problem: two regions to defend

The USSR is largely useless. It's too hard to take and hold early... ...Germany is also...

I maybe dont agree here. USSR and Germany are good commands where you can get cards and save troops cause they are not first target. You can make far attacks from these commands. If you play Assassin or Mercenary then these commands are in need.
Having a map with only big commands is boring. If only small commands is uncontrolled.
If USSR (8 regions) is too hard to take and hold early, it is harder to take and hold North (10 regions) ?

I never ran into the problem of Scandinavia being too easy to hold. The larger problem is that whoever starts strong up there has an easy march to more bonuses.

If around 6 players game i dont think anyone will start strong anywhere, chances are very low. If 1v1 someone start strong there then the other player will start strong in other side. As i said i like suggestion that USSR can bomb Finland, this will help to break their bonus from one more region.

Thank you for your time and thank you for contributing to make this map even better =)

 

[ndrm31]

Hi, ...so we are playing a crusade game, in my case I sind it compicate with the colors of the troop containers, maybe we could get more as in ROME o EUROPE MASSIVE maps, thx

 

[SgtPatton]

+1

Also the colour selection isn't enough to support some good team games....

DEFINITELY !!! I just took out one of my own team mates !!! grrrrrr !!! A BIG PLEASE !!! PLEASE add more colors to differentiate between who is who !!! PLEASE !!!!

 

[The-Swede]

DEFINITELY !!! I just took out one of my own team mates !!! grrrrrr !!! A BIG PLEASE !!! PLEASE add more colors to differentiate between who is who !!! PLEASE !!!!

Did you have all of the enemy colored the same? That is a favorite line of mine to have all enemy teams colored the same and my teamies other colors. You can then scroll over individual enemies to highlight their territories. As an added bonus this is a great way to get an overall scope of the situation and placement of all enemy troops or individual enemy teams as a whole. And on maps that have color schemes that allow it to have enemy teams of the same color but different shape or design.

 

[Lulzim]

Yes im working on some more colors, around 20 more

 

[periwinkle]

Well said shepherd

 

[The-Swede]

I think it's an interesting little map. I like smaller maps that have a lot of details to them like Forgotten Kingom. This map almost feels a bit like a smaller Phillipines. With all the small commands defended on two lines, even the ones in the south are defended on 2 lines. Then it has odd features like the aeroplane and ships. I disagree about making the ships connect to Scandanavia but i think it would be good to make the 3 ships a 1 deployable command, sort of like in the baltics. I think it would make games with 3-6 players more interesting.

 

[BlueVelvet]

Great that someone took the time to make the map, well done. My feedback I think the same as most.

USSR is too big to be a command and any troops in there are just lost.

Who ever has the biggest deploy in the south wins on a 2 player game.

The smaller commands are easy to take, too many and decide the game in 2 rounds.

 

[The-Swede]

I like the large commands in the middle of the map. They act sort of like the USSR and Europe on the classic map. I don't think a command needs to be viable of being held to be a command in the first place. On this map i like the two large commands in the middle of the map, it is especially important in games with more players.

 

[ndrm31]

Barbarossa map disappeared, to start games ;(

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Barbarossa map disappeared, to start games ;(

I believe they've pulled it to make the changes that Shepherd suggested. It'll be back soon, better than ever!

 

[riskyone]

Nice to see you around.



Thx, glad you liked it



I really like this suggestion. + German plane can 1way-attack two regions while USSR plane can bomb 2 regions, there is advantage for German plane because can move troops. By adding one more region to bomb by USSR plane then they are more equal i guess.




Sounds as a good solution, you explained it well



Haha not for me, or if you look at the brief. Maybe not for you too after the first game. Shouldnt it be more frustrating in other maps where you dont have colored ports???




It was suggested before i think. It will fix problem: two regions to defend



I maybe dont agree here. USSR and Germany are good commands where you can get cards and save troops cause they are not first target. You can make far attacks from these commands. If you play Assassin or Mercenary then these commands are in need.
Having a map with only big commands is boring. If only small commands is uncontrolled.
If USSR (8 regions) is too hard to take and hold early, it is harder to take and hold North (10 regions) ?




If around 6 players game i dont think anyone will start strong anywhere, chances are very low. If 1v1 someone start strong there then the other player will start strong in other side. As i said i like suggestion that USSR can bomb Finland, this will help to break their bonus from one more region.

Thank you for your time and thank you for contributing to make this map even better =)

This was a good read. Sorry I never got to know Sheperd well. I have bad eyesight. I missed a few thing the first dozen games but now that I know what can attack where. Your changing it up. Don't know if brian will like the changes as he is winning lots of games as is.

 

[riskyone]

Congrats to empirejeff for the second medal on Barbarossa, He won the Pita

 

[ndrm31]

BARBAROSSA OPEN GAMES:

https://www.majorcommand.com/GameFinder.php?newestFirst=1matchany=1&mapid=&setting[1]=3&setting[9]=1440&setting[19]=1&active=1&showDups=1

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

I believe they've pulled it to make the changes that Shepherd suggested. It'll be back soon, better than ever!

Yes. We can not add new connections while there are active games. We need to wait for all active games to finish before making changes.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Yes. We can not add new connections while there are active games. We need to wait for all active games to finish before making changes.

Dang, with all the ones not even started and the settings. This will take several months.

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

Dang, with all the ones not even started and the settings. This will take several months.

Well the waiting games not started won't be a problem because the new rules will only affect them once the game starts. It's only the active games we need to wait for. You can't change the map rules in the middle of an active game because, well, my guess is that the players might complain.....

There are 3 options though.

1) No one joins a waiting game, makes things go faster since all we do is wait for active games to complete

2) I can delete all waiting games, same things as above, except there is no chance of a player joining a new game

3) We release the updated map as a new map, so we don't have to wait for the active games to complete. And for a short period of time there will be two version of the same map at play.... The downside is that that there will also be two sets of Medals, one for each version of the map. However, I think we could merge the UDO count once all the old game complete, but I have to run it by Marcos first to see if it's possible.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I vote to delete the unfilled games, wait for all current to complete, and then make the changes. Cleaner that way, IMO.