Balkans - or - The Balkan Peninsula

[Cardinalsrule]

well, that seems like a big jump from +1 to +4. Hmmm. I think that's too big a bonus for holding 4 'terts', even if they all have attack points.

 

[Shepherd]

well, that seems like a big jump from +1 to +4. Hmmm. I think that's too big a bonus for holding 4 'terts', even if they all have attack points.

agreed, but part of why it works on the Middle East map is that none of the regions border each other and, thus, provide no support to each other. It would be the same here.

 

[patsfan44]

A flat 4 bonus or 3 would be good. IMO

 

[smi]

with the currect tech we can make it work this way :
Give + 1 if you own Ionian , Aegean and Black Sea ( like a normal command )
Give + 2 if you own Ionian , Aegean , Black Sea and Adriatic . ( or maybe just +1 )

So... if you hold all 4 you get + 3 total . ( or +2 total )

Also you are kinda forced to begin from the south and east seas to get the +1 first then if you manage to secure adriatic you get a larger bonus .

Since they are all over the map it could get tricky to hold all the seas . What you guys think ?

 

[Cardinalsrule]

that could work, but it favors one side of the map over the other. I guess my solution would be to just give +4 for holding all 4.

 

[patsfan44]

+1

 

[Shepherd]

I'm fine with making it +4 for holding all four, but I want folks to have the option of trying to think out of the box here. Perhaps we want to add more port connections so they aren't so easy to hold... right now you can hold three of them and only have to worry about defending against four land regions. No doubt there's a port along the Black Sea that could add an attack route there. Also, the way we've got the Ionian connected to Central Greece makes for nice flow, but I believe that the major port serving the west is Patras, which is on the Peloponnese - moving the port down there would make Greece a bit harder to hold, but would make the Peloponnese much more important strategically.

 

[patsfan44]

I would be for that Shep. Peloponnese was the only territory that was a dead end.

 

[aym]

I agree with Shepherd about moving the Ionian Sea port to Patras and adding a Black Sea port. You could add a port in Varna from the Black Sea, that's realistic as it's the largest city and seaport on the Bulgarian coast. Also, for the Aegean Sea, I think another port in Greek Macedonia would work as Thessaloniki is one of the busiest ports in Greece and the area in general. It would also serve to create a link from the sea to the middle of the map through Macedonia.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Perhaps we want to add more port connections so they aren't so easy to hold... right now you can hold three of them and only have to worry about defending against four land regions.

true, but you have to defend against 4 regions to get a +1. That's not exactly a great deal there..... I don't really agree with adding a lot of attack routes.

Defending against 5 to get a +4 IS a pretty good deal, though.

 

[Shepherd]

What I was getting at (but failed to actually say) is that there's one sea lane combo that only has four borders, while other combinations have more. Right now:
Ionian, Aegean, and Black Seas; three regions with four borders for a +1.
Adriatic, Ionian, and Aegean: three regions with five borders foe +1.
Adriatic, Aegean, and Black: three regions with six borders for a +1.
Adriatic, Ionian, and Black: three regions with six borders for a +1.

The common sea in the three hardest to hold combinations is Adriatic, because it obviously has one more port than the others, and two of those ports are not shared with any other Sea. Adriatic is the least advantageous sea to hold.

The second least advantageous sea is the Black Sea, since Artsyz doesn't isn't shared with another sea and can't serve as a jumping off point to another sea (as Istanbul and Central Greece do).

So if we're going to make any sea region/s more difficult to hold it should be Aegean and/or Ionian. Aym's idea of adding Thesaloniki sounds like a decent one, and patsfan44 points out that right now Peloponnese is a dead end.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I still think its already too hard to hold (with any of the combinations) for a +1, why make it harder?

If that was a command with 3 terts and 4 borders, it'd be more than a +1, right?

 

[Shepherd]

crap, here's a mind-bender...

If we removed the port in Split, and moved the Ionian port from Central Greece to Peloponnese, every combination of three would have exactly five borders regions to defend against. It doesn't add any defense points if you're holding all four (nor does it subtract any: there's six either way), but I think it makes it trickier to hold since you don't have this simple chain of land, sea, land, sea, land, sea, land, sea, land. ??

 

[Shepherd]

I still think its already too hard to hold (with any of the combinations) for a +1, why make it harder?

Think of it this way:
it's a four region, +4 command, that continues to give you a partial bonus even if you lose one region. Doesn't sound so bad, does it?

Anyway, I'm check my latest solution (which you fast-posted!)

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Think of it this way:
it's a four region, +4 command, that continues to give you a partial bonus even if you lose one region. Doesn't sound so bad, does it?

Anyway, I'm check my latest solution (which you fast-posted!)

No, that doesn't sound bad, but still has enough 'borders' - doesn't need more.

 

[patsfan44]

I find the port in split to clutter the ports in the west. So I would be in favor of its removal. Also I believe a Pelponnesse port on the west coast would be a good idea.

 

[Sebrim]

+1 Shep's idea sounds good!

 

[smi]

also making a port at pelloponese would make sense since the route ships use in greece is aegean -> corinth canal -> patras -> ionian

photos and info : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinth_Canal

 

[aym]

How about:

Adriatic - Rijeka, Durres
Ionian - Durres, Peloponnese
Aegean - Central Greece, Greek Macedonia, Istanbul
Black Sea - Istanbul, Artsyz

All ships can be held in a path with 7 territories. Or protect against 6 land regions.

 

[Shepherd]

one thing I've noticed in the 3p practice game some of us are in is that it's really easy to sweep through the shipping lanes since Central Greece connects to both Ionian and Aegean... it makes sense that somebody would need to travel over land to get from port to port, so the Peloponnese addition is big in my opinion.