TOURNEY: Continent Conquerors Cup

[xsb1977]

yeah, I can confirm he broke a truce, but not on 1st turn, the winning run was lead by this broken truce. Sad to see this kind of things.

 

[clarkenfeld]

We want to play with people we can trust

 

[Zorbmonkey]

RE: Game 507636 cheating
https://www.majorcommand.com/games/507636/

The map won't load for me but it looks like haWD96lz broke the truce at a 1v1 stage where a truce wouldn't really make sense so I can see why he would be tempted to break it.

However if you agreed to a truce you shouldn't break it, especially in a tournament where it affects the final scores.

So I'm going to include in the rules from now on that you can't break truces or you're out of the tournament and that game gets replayed with the remaining contestants.

Not sure why I didn't think of that to begin with, but anyway...this will be a set rule in my tournaments now.

Zorbmonkey

 

[Sebrim]

It loads for me and clearly shows that the diplo breach happened before any of the opponents were killed.

 

[LotsOFFLuck]

It loads for me and clearly shows that the diplo breach happened before any of the opponents were killed.

Looks to me like he broke it in round 9, going through Risky to kill xsb, then he got xsb's cards and killed risky. Then it was 1v1 and I got one more turn but didn't have a set, so on the next turn he killed me. So, yeah, he probably won BECAUSE he broke the treaty. BOO!!!

 

[Cardinalsrule]

RE: Game 507636 cheating
https://www.majorcommand.com/games/507636/

The map won't load for me but it looks like haWD96lz broke the truce at a 1v1 stage where a truce wouldn't really make sense so I can see why he would be tempted to break it.

However if you agreed to a truce you shouldn't break it, especially in a tournament where it affects the final scores.

So I'm going to include in the rules from now on that you can't break truces or you're out of the tournament and that game gets replayed with the remaining contestants.

Not sure why I didn't think of that to begin with, but anyway...this will be a set rule in my tournaments now.

Zorbmonkey

So haWD guaranteed himself a spot in the finals by CHEATING. Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

EDIT: The game CLEARLY shows that he broke it at a time when he was going for the kill of xsb, but needed to break the truce to kill Risky. He wouldn't have gotten to the point where it was 1v1 if he hadn't done that. He tried to 'hide' it by doing it while he was killing xsb so it wouldn't be clear or obvious in the record, but he couldn't have killed Risky without doing it.

As I said, will be watching this with interest to see how it plays out. haWD is now going to be one of the final 12, pretty much guaranteed. I wonder, if he wins the 1v1 round, how the other 5 will react to playing in a 6-player singles game for the Championship with someone who cheated to get there. I know what I would do in that situation.

 

[brianstheman]

EDIT: The game CLEARLY shows that he broke it at a time when he was going for the kill of xsb, but needed to break the truce to kill Risky. He wouldn't have gotten to the point where it was 1v1 if he hadn't done that. He tried to 'hide' it by doing it while he was killing xsb so it wouldn't be clear or obvious in the record, but he couldn't have killed Risky without doing it.

Hawd needed to break the truce to get the very first kill, XSB. Hawd's 15 troops on Simpson Desert were needed to wear down XSB's 10 troops on Flinders range. Without the additional firepower gained by breaking the truce, he would not have been able to kill XSB.

 

[Zorbmonkey]

Thanks Sebrim and Cards, you're right. Even though the diplomacy has a (9) bracket, it was actually broken on Round 8 before any players were killed.

So that game was basically screwed.

I didn't even think of this scenario. In other tournaments, what normally happens if someone breaks a truce?

I feel that the match should be restarted, this time with a ban on truce-breaking in place.
That way no-one has been robbed of crowns/skulls and haWD96lz gets another chance to play, now knowing the ramifications of these antics in the future.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Thanks Sebrim and Cards, you're right. Even though the diplomacy has a (9) bracket, it was actually broken on Round 8 before any players were killed.

So that game was basically screwed.

I didn't even think of this scenario. In other tournaments, what normally happens if someone breaks a truce?

I feel that the match should be restarted, this time with a ban on truce-breaking in place.
That way no-one has been robbed of crowns/skulls and haWD96lz gets another chance to play, now knowing the ramifications of these antics in the future.

Well, there's nothing OFFICIAL that can be done in a tourney, or in regular games, when someone breaks a treaty. In reality, however, LOTS of players will agree to band together and kill the offender in whatever game they're in with them. I'm in a tourney game with haWD where we're about to win and go to the finals with 4 players from the winning team playing an assassin game for the championship. I'm advocating to the other 3 players that we ALL target haWD and whoever happens to be the lucky one officially targeting him gets the tourney win. I'm willing to sacrifice the chance to win a tourney to assure that haWD doesn't win it. But that's just me...

 

[d-flat]

If he gets through on the basis of that game it makes a mockery of the whole tournament. Also, that would be irrespective if it had been in the last round or 1v1 or any other circumstances. Truces are absolute and if they can be broken if you feel like it then they are worthless.

 

[brianstheman]

….. I feel that the match should be restarted, this time with a ban on truce-breaking in place.
That way no-one has been robbed of crowns/skulls and haWD96lz gets another chance to play, now knowing the ramifications of these antics in the future.

With no rule prohibiting truce-breaking at the outset, Hawd played within the rules. The match had a valid outcome. That being said, as Cards mentioned, how other participants feel about such methods will dictate their actions in future games with said player. It is quite likely that a truce-breaking player will find an unwelcoming set of circumstances for the duration of this tournament, and possibly other games in the immediate future.

…. Also, that would be irrespective if it had been in the last round or 1v1 or any other circumstances. Truces are absolute and if they can be broken if you feel like it then they are worthless.

Diplomacy on MC is not absolute. There are many long and storied discussions here in the forum regarding it, including whether the engine should have options on breakable or non-breakable truces. As-is, truces can be broken at any time. However, the player must consider whether the immediate outcome is worth the breach. Many players have long memories, and will remember such actions not only when proposing diplomatic agreements, but in their gameplay. Similar to when a player suicides against another. Allowable within the boundaries of gameplay, but will have an effect in future games with said opponent.

I won't ever break a truce, as I know that I will then be a target for the aggrieved party for many, many games to come.

 

[d-flat]

Well okay Brian, you are right, point taken: truces are breakable and, as such, not absolute. I also take the point that no 'rules' were broken, per se, although as you also point out, it has left a bad taste in many mouths.

I suppose I was letting my personal feelings over-ride the actual facts. Weighing-up how many points one's integrity is worth is a personal decision.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

With no rule prohibiting truce-breaking at the outset, Hawd played within the rules. The match had a valid outcome. That being said, as Cards mentioned, how other participants feel about such methods will dictate their actions in future games with said player. It is quite likely that a truce-breaking player will find an unwelcoming set of circumstances for the duration of this tournament, and possibly other games in the immediate future.

I agree. I think that the tourney should continue, how the other remaining players react is up to them.

 

[haWD96lz]

I agree. I think that the tourney should continue, how the other remaining players react is up to them.

Well this blew up on me. It was made in the moment when I planned out an attack without realizing the truce was still valid and was stuck in a bad spot. Maybe I made the wrong call, but I will point out as Brian did truces are breakable. Note I did not cheat and anyone saying that is being diengenoius. Fin=d another adjective.

I will apologize to risky and its up to him how to respond, but if there is a lynch mob then I will just leave this site, there needs to be room for forgiveness.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Well this blew up on me. It was made in the moment when I planned out an attack without realizing the truce was still valid and was stuck in a bad spot. Maybe I made the wrong call, but I will point out as Brian did truces are breakable. Note I did not cheat and anyone saying that is being diengenoius. Fin=d another adjective.

I will apologize to risky and its up to him how to respond, but if there is a lynch mob then I will just leave this site, there needs to be room for forgiveness.

I don't disagree with that, I believe in forgiveness. Lord knows I've made mistakes. That being said, this IS a tournament, and people are unlikely to forgive WITHIN this tourney. I'm personally NOT happy with the prospect of someone winning this tourney because they broke a treaty, even though it's not technically against the rules. But I'm not going to be in any games with you, so it isn't up to me.

 

[haWD96lz]

I don't disagree with that, I believe in forgiveness. Lord knows I've made mistakes. That being said, this IS a tournament, and people are unlikely to forgive WITHIN this tourney. I'm personally NOT happy with the prospect of someone winning this tourney because they broke a treaty, even though it's not technically against the rules. But I'm not going to be in any games with you, so it isn't up to me.

Fair enough. I am more referring to people calling to lose team games where I am on their team on purpose. If that is the way the community is going to respond I don't want to be a part.

 

[AuraCraft]

(...) people calling to lose team games where I am on their team on purpose.

that's exactly what you threatened to do a few weeks ago (despite some compliments of mine to you (maybe you didnt read them) and plenty of reinforcements) I didn't feel like bringing it up again but since you do...

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Fair enough. I am more referring to people calling to lose team games where I am on their team on purpose. If that is the way the community is going to respond I don't want to be a part.

If you want to make up for this and be forgiven, here's a suggestion; take it or not. How about passing on advancing to the next round, letting someone else have the spot? I believe that would be enough for people to forgive and forget. Again, just a suggestion.

 

[Zorbmonkey]

Anyway, it would be awesome if all five of the players in Game 507636 can agree to a re-do.

If not, the current result will stand, as truce-breaking is technically within the rules on MC and I didn't specifically ban it in my tournament description (my bad).

This will likely cause increased hostility in games towards hawdz by some players, but that's just how it goes I guess.

By the way, if this happens again, the perpetrator will NOT BE ALLOWED in the next version of this tournament (which will be much bigger and better than this one :fisheye

 

[Zorbmonkey]

If you want to make up for this and be forgiven, here's a suggestion; take it or not. How about passing on advancing to the next round, letting someone else have the spot? I believe that would be enough for people to forgive and forget. Again, just a suggestion.

I guess that could be an alternative fix...
Next in line is elricbiscuit (#28). The four other players in that match could decide if they want a redo (with elric as the 5th player) OR just let elric take haWD96lz results.