Top point leaders discussion

[Incandenza]

Just what is your contention then? Because it sounds to me like you're implying some kind of wrongdoing, which I'd find particularly difficult to believe.

 

[ORBOTRON]

If you have specific allegations of collusion or other shenanigans, the private support forums are the way to address them.

Other than that, feel free to expound on your conspiracy theory.

 

[Badorties]

Well here is the deal, Fitz has perfected a strategy for class mass unlimited anywhere doubles. The more he plays, the more points he gets. It's not so much that he is so far ahead of everyone else, its that others on the scoreboard have gone down or have more variable point totals. Fitz is very risk adverse and will keep his standing on the scoreboard because of that. We have a metric in the works call Command Score while will be an algorithmic calculation based on a number of factors including game diversity. It will be a more accurate reflection of broad skill than points alone. Despite being #1 in points, his style would allow for a low Command Score. But there is no cheating or noob farming going on here. Fits would farm officers on those settings anyways.

 

[mapguy]

Just what is your contention then? Because it sounds to me like you're implying some kind of wrongdoing, which I'd find particularly difficult to believe.

Like I said, it takes more than being a specialist to create this wide of a gap. The top of the scoreboard is full of specialists. 80% win ratio is the average that you will see. To achieve better than that, you would need to bring something more into the equation. This fact is steadfast in my mind, and is predicated upon these certain elements-

1.) the bulk of games are started as open public games. Not joined, so as to take advantage of weak or noob players.

2.) All games are 1v1. It is possible to raise that 80% significantly if you team up with someone. The reason is two fold, one- most of your games will inevitably be against players that are not used to working together as a team, and two- the chance of AWOL's are increased with more players.

Ya know what...
I think that I just stumbled upon the answer to this quest. (see #2).

 

[Badorties]

The top of the scoreboard is full of specialists.

Wrong. look at players 2-5. different maps and settings all over the place. As i mentioned before if you have a 90+% win rate on a setting/map, then its just a matter of playing more games to get more points. This reaches a point where the points won out weight the risk of a loss, but Fitz is not there yet.

 

[warneke]

I've played him. He won. Because I suck. Plain and simple.

 

[mapguy]

Wrong. look at players 2-5. different maps and settings all over the place. As i mentioned before if you have a 90+% win rate on a setting/map, then its just a matter of playing more games to get more points. This reaches a point where the points won out weight the risk of a loss, but Fitz is not there yet.

I used the word "specialist", when I should have used the word Mastered. All of the players that reach a certain level of skill are in fact mastering the game. Each particular map and all of the various settings, are things to be mastered. Also, just because you see that a player plays a wide variety of maps and settings, does NOT mean that he is not a "Specialist". One can Master more than just one thing.

I stand behind what I said about it being next to impossible to go much higher than 80% win ratio if you play 1v1, and start open public games, rather than joining noob fests.

I totally understand now, how it is indeed possible to get a 95% win ratio ...(if you play partners).

 

[Robinette]

wow... this topic should not be in the mess...

Fitz plays the settings he loves and he is at the top of the scoreboard, and has the highest win % of all officers.
I too play the settings that i love, and am near the top, but i have likely the lowest win % of all officers.

Fitz does not normally play my settings NOT because he fears losing points, but because he feels 6p esc is a bit on the wild side and does not enjoy them.
I do not play Fitz's settings even though i could raise my score, simply because i do not enjoy that style of play.

Different strokes for different folks...
Isn't that why you have different settings in the 1st place?

 

[Kjell]

Certain people like playing certain games and I don't see why they should stop doing that. Ultimately people have a choice of joining someone's game or not. If you think you don't have a chance of winning and you don't feel like joining it: don't. My games are fairly consistent (atleast the no diplomacy thing), if you want diplomacy, join another game.

 

[FLAGG]

Fitz has an awesome score. People here who have played him (I have not yet) say he is a very good player. I am relatively new to this site, so I don't feel like I know all the past history people are talking about.............

That said - I think people should not be saying anything negative about Fitz. We should be glad we have such a great player on this site.

Major command is such a fun site. While I do look at the scoreboard from time to time and see how I am doing, I do not get caught up with it. I think it is cool to know the people up top. I actually think it is cool that there is this one guy - Fitz - way on top.

Gives us all something to shoot for! Just try to focus on having fun everyone.........To say negative things about someone, just because they have a top score........does not seem like the spirit we are shooting for on this great site...............

Flagg

 

[mapguy]

he feels 6p esc is a bit on the wild side and does not enjoy them.

Wild ? yeah you can say that. But it can be fun, so I like to play them too, but not for the points. People think that in a 12 player game, they have a one in twelve chance of winning. This is NOT correct, as additional factors are added to the mix, that most fail to recognize.

1.) multies.

2.) Diplomacy. I have always argued for the legitimacy of this aspect of Risk. It is the secret dip. that I have a problem with. And, even if someone is not purposefully using secret dip., they do tend to observe a kind of unspoken, and mutual understanding, with those that they play with on a regular basis.

3.)If you are a high ranker, a lot of times it may put a target on your back.

Different strokes for different folks...
Isn't that why you have different settings in the 1st place?

Could not agree more. With each setting comes different nuances of the game. Learning and mastering all of the settings, is what makes a well rounded player.

 

[ORBOTRON]

wow... this topic should not be in the mess...

Honestly, I thought this was going to devolve into something much worse. I'm impressed with how everyone is handling it and making valid arguments/comments. I'll move it over.

 

[mapguy]

Honestly, I thought this was going to devolve into something much worse. I'm impressed with how everyone is handling it and making valid arguments/comments. I'll move it over.

The reason for the creation of this thread, was to address the seemingly impossible point gap, that resides between #1 and #2 on the scoreboard.

I wanted to get the communities thoughts, and speculations, on how this could be. ...To ferret out Fitz's secret.

Yes, cheating was indeed a possibility that needed to be looked at. Especially since his reg. partner ZSP was busted for cheating.

I think that this thread has done a service for Fitz, in that it has unveiled his secret, ...and it has nothing to do with any kind of cheating.

 

[AAFitz]

I have, for some time, suspected Fiitz of taking advantage of some bug/flaw that we havent found. Not accusing you of cheating fitz... not at all. You seem like an upstanding dude. But I would be lying if I didn't admit to wondering if you had discovered something obvious that the rest of us hadn't. I think it was fueled by comments you made on time something similar to "It is really easy to win every single time if you just know some really basic things".. and I thought "hmmm". lol

Keep in mind I am a novice risk player and so it is certainly plausible in my mind that you're simply better than everyone else. But I definitely have wondered.

EDIT: Sorry this thread has gotten off-topic... someone post an image!

Well, Im the first to admit the score is completely inflated because so many new players join, but the thing is, Im not playing those settings to grab the points, Im playing to play the game. If I simply wanted points, I could have been setting up team games all along and milked it for everything it was worth, but what happened is I went from one game type, to another, in order to get good and learn from each type. The two minute games were simply the most fun, because even against a new player, going second with only two minutes to make everything forts on classic massive, is as exciting as the game gets, and against good players it is nothing less than an adrenaline rush. Unfortunately, the two minute games slowed down a bit which took a little of the thrill out of them, but when they were running smooth, and you had the two full minutes to make a turn that really required four, was just awesome, especially on a board where one attack, or one held bonus or one fortification, could literally sway the game, just enough to give a little momentum.

What I have been amazed at all along, is that as I have set these games up, there have been lots of experienced players around while they have sat waiting to join, and at the current point gap, Im an easy target for points, but only a few have joined in against me.

Im actually very uncomfortable with being at the top, and was relieved to see ZSP take it away.

 

[AAFitz]

Like I said, it takes more than being a specialist to create this wide of a gap. The top of the scoreboard is full of specialists. 80% win ratio is the average that you will see. To achieve better than that, you would need to bring something more into the equation. This fact is steadfast in my mind, and is predicated upon these certain elements-

1.) the bulk of games are started as open public games. Not joined, so as to take advantage of weak or noob players.

2.) All games are 1v1. It is possible to raise that 80% significantly if you team up with someone. The reason is two fold, one- most of your games will inevitably be against players that are not used to working together as a team, and two- the chance of AWOL's are increased with more players.

Ya know what...
I think that I just stumbled upon the answer to this quest. (see #2).

You were also the one that suggested winning 50 in a row on 1v1 was easy, and promised to show us how easy I believe.

More importantly, I dont blame you for being suspicious. I won nearly 60 straight 2 min and 5 min games 1v1 in a row, and quite frankly, I cant believe it either. Many of those unfortunately were no shows, but there simply wasnt much I can do about that. But so many of those were so close and so tough, that I can still remember them. Winning one of those going second, requires near perfect, or absolutely perfect play, so it forces one to play at their absolute peak performance, and is why I play so many. For every one I have actually played, I have probably set another up that didnt even start because no one was around or wanted to play them.

And finally, since you really are pretty much accusing me here of purposefully noob hunting, which is fine... then just step up and join my speed games. You've certainly been on when Ive set them up before, and I would LOVE if people joined against me so I can play a good game, but I cannot help that players avoid them. I honestly find it inexplicable, because even if I was a little more experienced, the point gap means I cant possibly win points over any period of time, but yet, even while Ive seen as many as 5 regular players at a time logged on, they just dont join. I think its great you like playing a variety of maps that rely quite heavily on luck, but Ive played those maps thousands and thousands of times already, and they just dont hold the interest for me they once did, and quite frankly, Im not going to just play them, for the sake of playing them. Ive done that thousands of times as well.

As far as explaining how there were so many wins, you are right about the fact that many players definitely could not keep up, and for some reason some never even showed up, which I had made a suggestion to direct players directly to a game page when it started to avoid this. What you are wrong about however, is the objective, because while it was fun enough winning the points, the real fun is trying to win the games, especially with high win percentages, because it simply requires perfect play. One mistake and Classic massive can turn on a dime, especially with inconsistent dice, so the thrill of the kill is not as satisfying as the thrill of the chase, which when pushed to the limit, just makes the game fun.

Ive played well over 10000 games of risk in the last 4-5 years, and have played all types of settings, but now prefer to play games that take pretty much every ounce of concentration I have, and are not simply decided by the dice. The timing of doing this just happened at the beginning of a new site, and it never crossed my mind to aim for the top spot, until I kind of got there by just playing.

Ive posted the score doesnt mean all that much in reality, and every time I do people even complain about that assuming its some kind of reverse humility, when in fact, its somewhat embarrassing to be at the top, but it just hasnt crossed the threshold of pain enough to purposely go play games that will erase the points. I fully expected someone to be challenging the score already, and have no doubt someone will. If that doesnt happen though, Im happy to lose those points if it makes it more fun for everyone else, but quite frankly, there are some incredible risk players in the world, and my score will be nothing of a memory soon Im sure, but I see no reason to let them just take it without working for it.

 

[AAFitz]

I thank everyone here for support, and I suppose it looks like Im being attacked to some, but, I have no problem with the discussion of the points here. Im embarrassed by it, because while the "elitist snob" has been used to describe me a few times, I am anything but, and have accidentally helped inspire the label, because Ive used some self-effacating humor, assuming everyone knew I didnt take it all that seriously.

Anyways, the games are all there, and they speak for themselves where they come from. Ive been asked many times, and have publicly stated repeatedly that they are indeed inflated by new players, and even AWOL players. I still don't even fully understand how people joined the 2 min games and missed their first turn, and suggested they be directed there immediately. Ive tracked them down to tell them their turn was up, and it is definitely a game bug to some degree, but not one I was exploiting, one that just got exploited. Believe me, Id have much rather have played those games, because thats why I sat around for sometimes as long as a half hour waiting for people to join. Then having to wait another 20 minutes for 10 points or so, I assure you was not my goal.

If you cant tell thats sincere, than I dont know what else to say.

However, and take this with the appropriate joking around I am meaning: Read: I AM JOKING WITH ALL OF YOU..

My score is your fault, not mine. Nearly every single one of you. Ive set up so many games with so many of you online and hardly any have joined. You have let me go unchallenged and I therefore blame you. Further, I think I didnt even check in for nearly a month((part of which was because the speed games slowed down, and 2 min games became difficult to play)), and I still came back to an absolutely empty inbox. Not one invite. Not one. Not one request for a game which the player had nearly a 50-50 chance of winning 50 points, and risking only 10 or so. I admit there are some games I dont have time for, or prefer, but out of a thousand players, the fact that not one decided to send out a request for a game they stood to win 60 points on while I could only win less than ten is amazing to me.

Unfortunately now I am getting into my busy season, so I cant promise any full time playing, or to accept every request but my god people, take these points. Or at least make me work for them. Landmine is the only player who consistently joins me, and while his chat is sometimes a little aggressive, he always puts up a good game, and in doing so, broke my 60 speed game winning streak.

So seriously, and all in the interest of fun here....come and get me!!!!!!!!!

Anyone who sees me online, ask me for a speed game. If you see a speed game, join right in. You're simply crazy not to.

Either way, I wouldn't put too much thought or worry into my score, it will get blasted past again, and again and again. So far its just a result of no one actually trying to surpass it, and I know that more than anyone.

 

[Kjell]

Oh wow, that was a lot of text fitz. Don't know about my chances but it would be interesting to take you on in a 2 min class mass game.

 

[AAFitz]

Oh wow, that was a lot of text fitz.

yeah that happens.

Don't know about my chances but it would be interesting to take you on in a 2 min class mass game.

Just find me online and consider it done, but they are 3 minutes now, but that is just as good.

 

[Kjell]

It's a date.

 

[Evan]

EDIT: I posted this in rsponse to posts on page 1 or 2. I didnt even realize I was so far behind. Not sure if my post below is relevant anymore.

RE-EDIT: My post is still valid although orbs already said it ^^

I don't think ANYONE here said anything negative about fitz at all. The only person who was even strong in their opinion was mapguy, and even he has conceded that the math now makes perfect sense.

So why is everyone crying foul. Fitz is awesome. And this thread has been kinda fun in my mind. I actually am proud of how this thread was somewhat sensitive topic but still maintained a civilized environment. Maybe I did not read every single post. But I certainly said nothing negative and even made a point to emphasize that I wasn't.