Top point leaders discussion

[mapguy]

Speaking of skill and luck, Here is something that I thought was VERY interesting. The average point gap between the top 30 players on the Scoreboard, is right around 30. BUT, when you look at the gap between 1st. and 2nd. it jumps to a whopping 586. That is something like 20 times the average. MAN, Fitzy you must let the rest of us in on your secret.

 

[samular]

I've noticed that before, too, mapguy. For quite a while, before zsp's fall from grace, z, Fitz, and Orbo were always a cool 200+ points above 4th place. Then the next tier (folks Chilly, Robinette, and a handful of others) cruised in a pack about 150+ points over the rest. From there on down, it was pretty linear. Everything but Fitz seems to have flattened out. I attribute it to the fact that he doesn't seem to play all that much anymore (oh and I suppose he's not too bad at the game)

 

[ORBOTRON]

ClassMass unlimited/anywhere 1v1 or 2v2 that's pretty much how all 3 of us got to the top. When I did my tour as an Ambassador, the game variation and the risk of taking on 5-8 unknown players at a time in standard games cut me down to size. I've been clawing my way back up, but this time with more variety.
Fitz has been resting on his laurels playing the occasional ClassMass 1v1 RT. It will take quite a while for anyone to catch him at this rate.

 

[Incandenza]

Give fitz a big map and unlimited forts, and he's as tough as they come...

 

[AAFitz]

Zsp leaving, and dropping his points is the only reason Im still at the top of the board. He shot past me like a rocket but hit the self destruct button at his peak.

Before playing here, I had thousands of World 2.1 games on CC. For years I dedicated myself to perfecting my strategy on it and worked with some of the best risk players Ive ever known, and each one taught me something little here and there, so when I came in and played Classic Massive, it was an easy transition. It was also fun as hell, because it is very much unique.

The thing is, the majority of those points have not been won from the players at the top of the scoreboard. Only a few have ever really joined against me. Im sure a number of reasons, and only a very small few join against me regularly, so the score, is very much inflated, but not necessarily on purpose. I learn maps and settings by playing them repetitively and learning the details, and in the process, I won a lot of games. If most that can play the game, chose the same settings as me, I have no doubt their scores would surpass me quickly, but along the way, I would certainly give them a good game or too.

The 60ish straight wins on the 2min Class Mass certainly helped, but I seriously probably took time off of my life, from the sheer volume of adrenaline I had pumping through my veins on those games.

 

[AAFitz]

QUOTE ORBO: "Fitz has been resting on his laurels playing the occasional ClassMass 1v1 RT. It will take quite a while for anyone to catch him at this rate."

To be honest, I got ridiculously busy, and was spending too much time online, and essentially gave up going online for months. I was actually surprised to come back in and see I was still near the top. Ive also set up probably another 20 or 30 games that have simply never started, but Ive loved not having to check in every day. My only two non speed games in months have been with grons, who was a new player and a damn good one from what I can tell.

Its taken a lot of discipline to not join more games, but I can still taste the freedom of not being in games, and it tastes damn good.

I know you meant nothing by this too ORBO, Im posting this as an apology/explanation, not a defense.

 

[mapguy]

Give fitz a big map and unlimited forts, and he's as tough as they come...

most of my points have come from 1v1 unlimited. I am proficient on any map, and have NOT come across anyone that is better than myself on these, or any other settings. My experience has taught me that as you approach the top players in any sport or game, the degrees in skill level, invariably tend to close, NOT widen. Not much separates the top players when it comes to skill. So, when I see this kind of gap between 1st. and 2nd. place, I am left with the questions-
How is it that Fitz is so much better than ALL of the top players ?
I know damn well that it is not a matter of mechanics or strategy. So, it must be a matter of something else.
I would be very interested to learn just how it is that he is able to chalk up 600 points over the other top players. ...What is his secret ?

 

[ORBOTRON]

I def. didn't mean to come off as a DB, lol I should have chosen my words more wisely.

So, should I read between the lines that you are going to be coming back full time here

 

[Incandenza]

Hey, if you want to set up a few private dubs games, I'll scare up a teammate and play against ya. I like to think that I could at least give you a decent run for your money.

 

[AAFitz]

I def. didn't mean to come off as a DB, lol I should have chosen my words more wisely.

So, should I read between the lines that you are going to be coming back full time here

Not at all man, I knew what you meant.

As far as coming back full time; Not at all man, you knew what I meant.

 

[Badorties]

How is it that Fitz is so much better than ALL of the top players ?

It's basic math. If you win 95% on a particular setting, the more you play that setting, the more points you will have. Fitz rinses and repeats like no other.

However there are some big pot tourneys being played now. If a top player took one of those down, they could be on top for sure.

 

[Evan]

I have, for some time, suspected Fiitz of taking advantage of some bug/flaw that we havent found. Not accusing you of cheating fitz... not at all. You seem like an upstanding dude. But I would be lying if I didn't admit to wondering if you had discovered something obvious that the rest of us hadn't. I think it was fueled by comments you made on time something similar to "It is really easy to win every single time if you just know some really basic things".. and I thought "hmmm". lol

Keep in mind I am a novice risk player and so it is certainly plausible in my mind that you're simply better than everyone else. But I definitely have wondered.

EDIT: Sorry this thread has gotten off-topic... someone post an image!

 

[Badorties]

Nah, Fitz has a very specialized knife that he keeps extremely sharp. It would cut anyone to pieces. However, I would spork-battle him all day long.

 

[mapguy]

I have, for some time, suspected Fiitz of taking advantage of some bug/flaw that we havent found. Not accusing you of cheating fitz... not at all. You seem like an upstanding dude. But I would be lying if I didn't admit to wondering if you had discovered something obvious that the rest of us hadn't. I think it was fueled by comments you made on time something similar to "It is really easy to win every single time if you just know some really basic things".. and I thought "hmmm". lol

Keep in mind I am a novice risk player and so it is certainly plausible in my mind that you're simply better than everyone else. But I definitely have wondered.

EDIT: Sorry this thread has gotten off-topic... someone post an image!

Yes Evan, that is what I am getting at. It is not really a matter of a cheating allegation, as much as a big fat HMMMMMMM. I know from experience that an 80% win rate CAN be achieved, if you become the best player on a particular map and setting. But, in order for you to raise that to 95%, you MUST resort to farming noobs. There is absolutely no way around it. I can go into the specifics, and provide all of the math that proves this fact, if required. But suffice it to say that, A 95% win ratio is impossible to achieve without farming noobs. You can wash, rinse and repeat, till the cows come home. But you can not overcome the math.

 

[Chilly]

Nah, Fitz has a very specialized knife that he keeps extremely sharp. It would cut anyone to pieces. However, I would spork-battle him all day long.

I'm proud to say that Jeymo and I beat AAFitz and zsp 2 out of 3 matches in the Classic Massive, Unlimited Forts, Doubles tourney. **grin**

 

[mapguy]

I'm proud to say that Jeymo and I beat AAFitz and zsp 2 out of 3 matches in the Classic Massive, Unlimited Forts, Doubles tourney. **grin**

This fact goes to the point that Fitz's skill level is not so much above the other top players. So why does his enormous point gap prevail ?. If it is not noob farming, someone please figure out his secret, and enlighten the rest of us. :alberteinstein:

 

[Evan]

anyways, ya'll should start a new thread.

I COME HERE TO SEE SIGHTS






Good idea E, new thread started

--ORB

 

[Chilly]

This fact goes to the point that Fitz's skill level is not so much above the other top players. So why does his enormous point gap prevail ?. If it is not noob farming, someone please figure out his secret, and enlighten the rest of us. :alberteinstein:

I'll offer a hypothesis that might partially account for his rise.

I thought that it had something to do with the gazillion 2v2 ClassicMassive Unlimited Forts games that AA and zsp were dominating everyone with for a while. Until the tournament rolled around, I had no desire to figure out a strategy for those settings and thus avoided them. I wouldn't call what they were doing noob farming, because they were schooling a lot of people that I wouldn't consider noobs. However, they had pioneered (or perfected) a certain strategy and were able to shoot up the rankings pretty quick because the scoreboard rankings attempts to lump skill across all game settings into one score.

There was then a gap of about 3500 gameid's where AA didn't play. zsp continued to play, and if I recall started coming back to the rest of the pack a little. zsp then left majcom while AA was largely inactive. He started playing a few games about a month ago and has gone 10-2 in 1v1's since then. Looks to me like he gains about 10-15 pts for a win and loses 40 or so for a loss.

I conclude that he got to that ridiculous score because of a superior strategy that him and zsp (and I think Orbo) worked out which had a grossly superior win %, even against players of similar skill. I think the tournament that he sponsored shed a lot of light on the strategy and lessened its effectiveness. He hasn't come back to the pack because he exists in a semi-retired state right now and doesn't play many games. That and he is still damn good at 1v1 on Classic Massive Unlimited.

In theory, even if he continues to dominate on those settings, he should slowly come back to the pack because he will still lose occasionally and lose a lot more points than the average person does. But because he is only playing a game about every third day, it could take a while.

 

[ORBOTRON]

That's a pretty good analysis Chilly. Gotta give credit where it is due though, Fitz was the one with the strategy. After we had a brief pissing match, he taught me, lol. We then had another pissing match, went pouting to our respective corners and he brought Z on as a partner.

 

[mapguy]

I'll offer a hypothesis that might partially account for his rise.

I thought that it had something to do with the gazillion 2v2 ClassicMassive Unlimited Forts games that AA and zsp were dominating everyone with for a while. Until the tournament rolled around, I had no desire to figure out a strategy for those settings and thus avoided them. I wouldn't call what they were doing noob farming, because they were schooling a lot of people that I wouldn't consider noobs. However, they had pioneered (or perfected) a certain strategy and were able to shoot up the rankings pretty quick because the scoreboard rankings attempts to lump skill across all game settings into one score.

There was then a gap of about 3500 gameid's where AA didn't play. zsp continued to play, and if I recall started coming back to the rest of the pack a little. zsp then left majcom while AA was largely inactive. He started playing a few games about a month ago and has gone 10-2 in 1v1's since then. Looks to me like he gains about 10-15 pts for a win and loses 40 or so for a loss.

I conclude that he got to that ridiculous score because of a superior strategy that him and zsp (and I think Orbo) worked out which had a grossly superior win %, even against players of similar skill. I think the tournament that he sponsored shed a lot of light on the strategy and lessened its effectiveness. He hasn't come back to the pack because he exists in a semi-retired state right now and doesn't play many games. That and he is still damn good at 1v1 on Classic Massive Unlimited.

In theory, even if he continues to dominate on those settings, he should slowly come back to the pack because he will still lose occasionally and lose a lot more points than the average person does. But because he is only playing a game about every third day, it could take a while.

He started playing a few games about a month ago and has gone 10-2 in 1v1's since then.

This confirms exactly what I said earlier that a player CAN achieve an 80% win ratio, if he becomes a Master of any particular map and settings. This can take you to the top, but it takes a lot more than this to create the Grand Canyon gap that we now see between 1st. and 2nd. Did Fitz also profit from some of his partner (zsp's) transgressions ? Were the bulk of his games "joined" or "started". My contention here is that the big gap has some other explanation other than him being good at specialization.