Public Transportation Map Idea

[Chilly]

In responding to Shepherd's thread on the Paris map that he has been working on, I had the idea that perhaps a Paris Metro or NYC subway map might be interesting.

This could be a way to monopolize a particular "line" for a traditional command bonus, but still leave open the idea that having multiple similar "attractions" provides an additional bonus (like the way Shep is trying to set up his current Paris map).

I would assume that the maps for both the Metro and Subway are public domain so perhaps those could be the starting point?

I imagine the graphics could be brutal trying to fit in stops and what not, but it seemed interesting to me.

 

[Shepherd]

I would assume that the maps for both the Metro and Subway are public domain so perhaps those could be the starting point?

Yes and no. Anybody can make their own map of a subway or other transit system, but what makes many of these maps recognizable is the style of the map; take out the elements that are under copyright and you often lose the flavor of the map.

Early maps of the London Underground were messy and hard to read; what makes the current underground map so great is the schematic projection and the simplified - and highly identifiable - iconography. That is somebody's original work (Harry Beck), and protected by copyright by the London Underground.

Another favorite metro map of mine is that of Mexico City. The map itself is rather dull, but each station has its own icon that gives the system a unique flavor. These simple but elegant symbols were designed by Lance Wyman, who also designed the D.C. metro map you posted above. (He's something of a hero of mine - note that I've been trying to do some similar work with the silhouettes on the Paris drafts, but I'm not at his level.)

 

[Chilly]

Well, amusing then that all three images I grabbed were off of Flickr where I checked the search boxes for CC licenses (available for development on a commercial website).

Let me go grab that really large grain of salt.

Understand what you are getting at with certain elements of the map being copywritten. It seems like if you wanted to do one of these style maps, you would have to start at ground zero and create your own "iconography". I think it could be a really cool playable map, but I'm way over my head in the graphics department. Let me know if you (or anyone else) ever wants to develop this idea further.

 

[Shepherd]

I think it could be a good map idea, Chilly, and I wasn't trying to squash the idea. I was just bringing up what my understanding of the copyright issues would be.

We could certainly take any major metro system and work it into a map. I think it would be cool just to do a system in which the stations are regions, and when you control an entire line you get a bonus. Some stations would be on more than one line, making them highly contested. But as we'd be starting from scratch with the graphics, as you say, such a map might actually prove disappointing to folks who live in that city and know the original map well. This would especially be the case with the London Tube system, which has such a fantastic and recognizable map; but if we went with a lesser-known transport system it might be a better sell.

If you're willing to work on this idea, Chilly, I'd fully support the development.

The first thing I would suggest is finding a metro system that isn't quite as extensive; New York's Subway system has over 400 stations, which would be impossible to depict with enough space for troop containers. The Paris Metro sytem has over 300 stations - also a beast. To make this map playable we'd probably want to cut them down to under 100 - or better yet, find a system that is a more manageable size to begin with.

Next, map shape is a concern. Maps that run tall aren't as user-friendly as maps that are square or run more horizontal.

I'm looking at the D.C. map, thinking that it would be next to impossible to actually hold an entire line. If a line was a command, there'd be 20-30 regions in each command. So ideally we'd identify a city that has fewer stations/line, or just start editing them out.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area we have BART, which has only five lines - not enough commands. And every stop is on multiple lines, which would also play poorly. So it would need to be a map with enough commands to keep things interesting.

And it needs to be a city with international appeal - most of us won't get excited about a map of the Eugene, Oregon bus system (Sorry, Ducks.)

The first city that came to mind for me was Barcelona. Their metro system has a lot of lines, fewer stations/line, and the map is horizontal. But from a logistical point of view, the map is very messy in the center/downtown area, and might be very confusing to players.

Looking around at Metro systems I've used, Berlin is a mess. Rome has only two lines. Madrid isn't bad - lots of stations but the lines are well spaced. Munich has that same clusterf__ in the center of the system. Boston has few lines that are really long. Athens has only three lines, as does Prague.

Another idea would be going back in time. The London or Paris systems of the 1920s wouldn't be nearly as daunting to depict as the current systems, and we could make use of some older, public domain sources. And it's always fun to ground a map in a certain time.

edit: it occurs to me that the same type of play could be (and has been, by folks who now work at this site) applied to rail maps or highway maps of regions in a larger scale. For example, a rail map of Spain or France are nice shapes that would work very well - connect the cities to complete a line, bonus for controlling all stations in Paris or Madrid, etc.

 

[KungFuDuet]

How about Shanghai? Kuala Lumpur?

Singapore also looks quite good.

Tokyo is an absolute mess.

 

[mark]

Please do DC! I would play the HELL out of that map. The idea of holding the Red line against all comers would make all those years of sitting on those damn trains worthwhile. ;-)

Seriously, it would be like playing the western side of the SA map but in 10 different places. A lot of it would come down to posturing. There is even poetry to it...you'd have to hold both Roslyn and the Pentagon stations to be able to have a peaceful 1 on Arlington.

BTW, the DC Metro map is copyrighted. Warning PDF Link. Says so at the bottom of the PDF. They paid good money to have that made, I'm sure they don't want it used without permission...and I doubt the idea of warring factions between the Red and Green lines at Fort Totten match their concept of a good use of the map.

I would love to see a DC or DC Metro map....Hell, what about a DC Metro region map? Use the Beltway, rail lines, counties as region dividers....

Ahh it is good to think of this stuff...but my Photoshop skills are non-existent. Hell, I can't even do a decent meme. Sure hope someone else runs with it.

 

[Chilly]

I will take a look at these and see if I can sketch something out on paper that I think would be good...from a playability sense.

It seems that most, if not all, of these subway/metro ideas will require the number of stops to be drastically reduced (perhaps only the main transfer stations).

I'm trying to decide if the map should be an above ground map of the city with subway/metro's running underneath that act as connectors and additional commands.

OR

If the map should primarily be subway/metro's with similar tourist destinations (museum's, parks, government buildings) acting as additional commands similar to the Paris map that Shepherd is (was?) working on. If that's still being developed, then I will definitely skip this.

I think the maps that would have the widest appeal are Washington, NYC, London, Paris just because of general familiarity with landmarks and places within. Not sure how feasible it is, but I will try and make something on paper just to see if it would work.

 

[Shepherd]

personally, I'd go with one idea and see how far you can take it... don't try to throw everything in. I think if you just try to create a subway system only map you'll see how hard it is to make work. And stylistically/thematically it will be tighter if you go with one idea and perfect it.

DC looks possible, actually; here's a public domain version of the map, which isn't nearly as elegant as the official metro map but in some ways is cleaner. Only five lines for commands, though... it would be nice to have additional short lines running through.

 

[KungFuDuet]

would the rail line ends be too linear?

 

[Chilly]

That's what I'm thinking. Not enough room to move around. There needs to be either a whole lot more lines with more ways to jump around, or another layer of some kind.

Honestly, I would take the DC metro and edit out about 60% of the stops (esp. in the burbs.)

 

[Shepherd]

What is needed is a loop line. It would be nice if DC Metro would approve the damn purple line, then all would be right with this map. (I see that there is also a silver line in the works, but it just follows the orange through the middle of town.)

I see that DC is building a Streetcar network, but the lines are clustered in the city center and don't connect the ends the way we'd like them to. In fact, they largely follow the metro paths.

This is unrelated, but awesome. Image if all of the subways were connected, world-wide.

 

[Shepherd]

apologies for double posting, but to make this work well it would seem that we need a metro system that incorporates a circle line.

Most well-established metro systems grew with their cities, and as the cities have grown the systems have just extended the lines to meet the needs of a larger and more suburban population. As the diameter of the system grows, some cities have added branch lines to fill the widening gaps between lines in their systems - when you see not only a Red line, but a Red 2 and Red 3 that run the same line through the center but reach a different terminus (London has a bunch of these). The result is a system that looks like DC - long lines that cluster in the center of town. To connect the outer ends of the system, one has to go into the core, transfer, and go back out again.

A few systems have also managed to connect the branches with circle lines. London has the yellow Circle line. Moscow, which has the second busiest metro system in the world (after tokyo) opened a circle line in 1950. Note that since the circle line was added so long ago, gradual expansion means the branches are still really long past the circle.

Moscow would work pretty well for a MajCom map, but I think the real prize is the Beijing Subway. Check this out: 15 lines, 190 stations (too many, as usual), 5th busiest system in the world. It has two loops - one that rings the center of the system, and a half-loop that connects the northern branch lines. Line 9, which will be complete this year, connects the western branches. There's a line that shoots through the center horizontally, and one vertically. But what makes this map perfect is that there are some shortish lines as well - one in each corner of the map, and one (the Olympic spur line) right in the middle of everything that hits both circle lines. (Line 9 isn't shown as connecting, but it will hit lines 1 and 4 this summer.) If we figure out how to cut 100+ stations out of this map, the rest of the work is already done for us.

 

[KungFuDuet]

YES!!!! BEIJING!!!!! ONE OF MY FAVOURITE CITIES! (and yes I saw this map you posted) when I search for the railway maps.

 

[KungFuDuet]

Now this is the plan for 2012:

I am really sorry I double posted...

Shep's point of the line 9 is shown here.

with that, line 6 and second phase of line 10 is also planned to open etc.

Look if you must - for any other differences - but this would really really work cause the new plan would actually have the map circularized (if that's a word)

 

[Shepherd]

Damn, I didn't see that you'd posted this, KFD! This is the first map I've seen with the line 10 as a circle route.

here's what I whipped up quickly just so I could play with spacing...

Edit: OK, I spent five more minutes and quickly completed the line 10 loop (it's ugly) and added line 6 (white).

 

[Robinette]

Perhaps this is how the battles will play out on this map...

 

[KungFuDuet]

Just to blow your mind, 2015 we are trying to build something like this in Beijing:

A lot more circular routes, a lot more stations, a lot more interchanges.

 

[Shepherd]

Thanks KFD. I poked around and found the wikipedia info with projected completion dates for the many, many additional lines they are working on. (Are they all necessary, or is this one of those instances where the Chinese government decided their ____ should be the best and biggest in the world, and so they're just building until they can't?)

This fall the line 10 circle should be complete, as should the connection to line 9. Other bits are projected to be complete by the end of the year, then more next year, and the year after that, etc. But at some point we need to draw the line.

I think this map has 105 regions (stations) and 14 different commands (lines). I haven't put any serious thought into gameplay - I'm just trying to get a basic shape together. Right now the line lengths are: 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 9 13, 13, 13, 13, 18, and 27 regions. If that adds up to way more than 105, it should - many regions are in more than one command.

Anyway, tell me what you think. I actually like this idea a lot, and I think this particular system is exceptionally well suited for a map - better than anything else I've seen.

 

[KungFuDuet]

on my count there are 103 regions on the map by counting manually without the counting you made.

And God knows what the government is trying to achieve. but one thing I can tell you is that the Liu Huan Lu (the sixth circular Highway around the city of Beijing) is opened, and that is 188 km long. You can see the size of the city in this perspective, and therefore decide for yourself if the subways are really needed. haha

I suggest you to avoid making rail lines horizontal, as that would be hard to fit names in. for example, Line 4's top left corner can be made into diagonal so names can be easier fitted in. also with other horizontal portions.

 

[KungFuDuet]

bump - discussion ignited

Should we make the transfer station a different shape so that they are easier to identify as having more than one line crossing there?

And could you post one without the line names, so I may assign appropriate names to the stations?