Is this site rigged by the owners?

[BlueVelvet]

Hi, I am new here and and think the site is great so far but have a question.

I have just played this guy DDrider and he said that the site is rigged and the owners give good dice and cards to certain players. Is this true? I didn't have good dice at the start and then they got better and I won.

This is the game we played, I'm not sure if you will be able to see it:

https://www.majorcommand.com/games/443351/

If the site is rigged then there is no real point in playing here as it doesn't make sense.

Has anyone else experienced this? I hope the site is fair as I think it's really good.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

The owners don't manipulate the dice, nor do they 'cheat' for any specific players. No one here has that kind of time or inclination to do that, and what would be the point? So that certain people could get "medals" and "awards"? Winning a game when you cheat carries with it no satisfaction for a 'normal' person. This is a site to play a game on, no one is going to waste their time doing silly things like that.

 

[EasyToKill]

I'm just a 'grunt', been playing here since last December. Here's what I've seen, for what it's worth. Sometimes I get good dice, sometimes I get bad dice. Sometimes I win against much higher ranked players, sometimes I lose against noobs. The dice can be wonky, and I believe that they tend to go on bigger 'streaks' than they should, but I would laugh at the idea that the owners and/or admin are manipulating the dice. As Cardinalsrule said, what would be the point?

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

Yeah, I'm the owner.

The dice and cards are totally random. If you stay here long enough you will experience times when the dice totally suck, and other times when you get amazing rolls. But that's just the nature of randomness.

Some people who are prone to believe in conspiracies, or who like to think they are always the victim, and everyone is out to get them, will often use randomness to prove their point one way or another. Not much you can do about that, except rely on your own judgement.

Like Cardinalsrule and EasyToKill said, what would be the point? It just wouldn't make any sense, nor would it be good for business.

In a way, I wish everyone could get good dice so they would be happy! lol. But that wouldn't work either.

Nevertheless, One idea we have on the table, is to add the "dice roll outcomes" to each players Stats page. That way each player can see for themselves what their rolls have been over time. Hopefully it will put to rest this discussion.

Meanwhile, you'll have to realize there are going to be good times, and bad times. But whichever way the dice roll, I hope you have fun!

Thanks for posting!

 

[miquel]

Yeah, I'm the owner.

The dice and cards are totally random. If you stay here long enough you will experience times when the dice totally suck, and other times when you get amazing rolls. But that's just the nature of randomness.

Some people who are prone to believe in conspiracies, or who like to think they are always the victim, and everyone is out to get them, will often use randomness to prove their point one way or another. Not much you can do about that, except rely on your own judgement.

Like Cardinalsrule and EasyToKill said, what would be the point? It just wouldn't make any sense, nor would it be good for business.

In a way, I wish everyone could get good dice so they would be happy! lol. But that wouldn't work either.

Nevertheless, One idea we have on the table, is to add the "dice roll outcomes" to each players Stats page. That way each player can see for themselves what their rolls have been over time. Hopefully it will put to rest this discussion.

Meanwhile, you'll have to realize there are going to be good times, and bad times. But whichever way the dice roll, I hope you have fun!

Thanks for posting!

No, dice and cards are not totally random. As long as they are generated by piece of software in best case those are pseudo-random. However having a good quality PRNG is not that trivial.

Based on over 21000 turns taken I would say that "things" happen here far more often than they should happen based on the odds.

There have been plenty of discussions about rigged dice and all of those have been responded by "that's the nature of randomness". I don't believe at all that dice is rigged intentionally for certain players...but as long as PRNG implementation is not described/reviewed in public I think that it can contain design flaw...(being involved with SW development about 20 years and hasn't seen too many piece of SW without bugs :laugh

It has been said that Mersenne-Twister PRNG is used...but it has been proved that it will be actually really bad if seeded incorrectly. Also typically PRNG provides pseudo random sequence of integer numbers; there are several ways to reduce that to 1...6 dice range...some of those will provide uniform distribution and some don't (BAD )

 

[th-child]

I don't believe at all that dice is rigged intentionally for certain players

Me neither.

The other things you mention are important and indeed have been discussed before, but I think for this very question they are irrelavant.

Even if the site's PNRG is bad, and is seeded incorrectly, and the whole dice generation is made in the baddest, worstest, uselessest way anyone can imagine, even if that is true (and though I can't comment on this myself, I guess it must be a big IF), it is the same for everyone.

We all experience the same streaks, both the good and the bad.

I think DDrider's claim (i.e. that the owners give good dice and cards to some players), with all due respect, is ludicrous.

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

No, dice and cards are not totally random. As long as they are generated by piece of software in best case those are pseudo-random. However having a good quality PRNG is not that trivial.

Yeah that's true. You can't generate pure randomness, but now we're just talking semantics. I'd much rather discuss whether reality is real. I mean, the quantum world is so crazy, you wonder if existence is just a dream, or at best, some computer simulation we're all a part of.

Nevertheless, any pseudo-randomness is still random in this case, and completely different than being "rigged". And it might also explain the dice's mood swings too!

 

[Sebrim]

It has been said that Mersenne-Twister PRNG is used...but it has been proved that it will be actually really bad if seeded incorrectly. Also typically PRNG provides pseudo random sequence of integer numbers; there are several ways to reduce that to 1...6 dice range...some of those will provide uniform distribution and some don't (BAD )

Hi miquel, can you explain to an ignorant lay person in what way the Mersenne-Twister PRNG is twisted? Does it provide statistically more 1s and 6s or rather more toward the middle? And what kind of difference is there? Is it, like, 25 % or more like 20,02 % instead of 20 % for a 6? And in what way would this impact a game, since it's the same for everybody?

 

[miquel]

Hi miquel, can you explain to an ignorant lay person in what way the Mersenne-Twister PRNG is twisted? Does it provide statistically more 1s and 6s or rather more toward the middle? And what kind of difference is there? Is it, like, 25 % or more like 20,02 % instead of 20 % for a 6? And in what way would this impact a game, since it's the same for everybody?

I have not been involved with PRNGs which requires very high quality of randomness so I don't know the exact details. What I know is that Mersenne-Twister is very good IF seeded correctly, with badly selected seeds it will fail standard test for checking the quality of PRNG. However as of today there are better alternatives which are also much more less complex from computation point of view; Mersenne-Twister has quite large state buffer and using this could be one reason for the site being occasionally...let's say sluggish.

Another point is that how the PRNG output is converted to reduced range; this is fully independent of used PRNG. Typically PRNGs provide pseudo-random numbers within 16 or 32 bit integer range and reducing the range is done by application which uses the generator. There are simple ways to do it if required range is a power of 2; which 0...5 / 1...6 as the dice range is not. Then algorithm used to reduce range should guarantee that output values after enough rounds has uniform distribution; meaning that after let's say 10000 rolls each value has been generated approximately as many time as others. Since I don't know anything about how this site is seeding the PRNG or how it is performing the range reduction I can't comment about the percentages.

To me...as an engineer :laugh: playing Risk or it's variants is all about that the tactic is based on odds. Odds are described in the Wiki of this site as well. However if we don't have uniform distribution or in other words "true" randomness in dice generation then those odds does not apply. Even though if suspected "rigging" is same for everybody it will ruin the odds which are based on the facts that attacker has one dice more (typically) and defender wins on a tie.

 

[miquel]

Yeah that's true. You can't generate pure randomness, but now we're just talking semantics. I'd much rather discuss whether reality is real. I mean, the quantum world is so crazy, you wonder if existence is just a dream, or at best, some computer simulation we're all a part of.

Nevertheless, any pseudo-randomness is still random in this case, and completely different than being "rigged". And it might also explain the dice's mood swings too!

Yes I agree that difference between pseudo random and pure random is semantics...that was not the point.

Good pseudo random is as good true randomness. "Rigged" can be understood in several ways, like I said I don't believe that there is something which will favor certain players. However it can still be something that rolls do not follow the expected odds. Of course the outcome of each roll should not go like that but in bigger picture majority of the outcome of attacks should go according to odds if the rolls are random.

Maybe this is a wrong thread to discuss about the other aspects than favoring certain players...but in any case some more technical "excuses" for moody dice should be presented instead of what has been said before.

 

[engineerairborne]

There is a simple solution...Well OK maybe not so simple, but there is a solution that would put this to rest. I believe at Conquer Club, I played there for a week or so before finding this much better site. As part of a players profile was also a detailed report about dice roles. What percentage of times you rolled 1-6, how many times each number was a winning number, in offense and defense and such. It would take some work writing Stored Procedures, or other queries, depending on what information is stored. Of course this might cause to much overhead with in the platform.

But I for one, believe that you just have to play as if you are going to get bad dice, and factor that with in your moves. But like has been said before. Most of the time you have no idea how well your defensive dice were.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

The dice stats are planned to be part of the new game engine. So what you describe is coming, EA. But the coders aren't making any changes in the current game engine (barring catastropies), concentrating solely on the new engine. It's creeping towards completion.

 

[engineerairborne]

The dice stats are planned to be part of the new game engine. So what you describe is coming, EA. But the coders aren't making any changes in the current game engine (barring catastropies), concentrating solely on the new engine. It's creeping towards completion.

 

[riskyone]

Hi, I am new here and and think the site is great so far but have a question.

I have just played this guy DDrider and he said that the site is rigged and the owners give good dice and cards to certain players. Is this true? I didn't have good dice at the start and then they got better and I won.

This is the game we played, I'm not sure if you will be able to see it:

https://www.majorcommand.com/games/443351/

If the site is rigged then there is no real point in playing here as it doesn't make sense.

Has anyone else experienced this? I hope the site is fair as I think it's really good.

I think DDrider needs to be informed, that's horrible to say and untrue.

 

[miquel]

:dontknow:

I think DDrider needs to be informed, that's horrible to say and untrue.

Like I have said earlier I have my doubts about PRNG implementation but that is same for all. But I don't believe at all that there would be something which would favor certain players. Does Sheriff even play any games...:dontknow:

 

[PITMAN212]

i win I loose , I probably roll a thousand rolls a week good and bad so no complaints from PITMAN , this place ROCKS

 

[PITMAN212]

well said cards

 

[NewSheriffInTown]

Like I have said earlier I have my doubts about PRNG implementation but that is same for all. But I don't believe at all that there would be something which would favor certain players. Does Sheriff even play any games...:dontknow:

Ironically, I hate the dice.... I mostly play FIxed Force. :smile:

 

[riskyone]

I can't help find it funny that the NewSheriff doesn't enjoy dice. I don't remember FF in my Parker Brothers board game rules about that. This site is the only I've played so I didn't even know what FF was the first time I played it. Just seamed the dice were pretty even is all I remember. Enjoy all.

 

[MeNtisH]

Hello folks I would like to just add something I have noticed happening in a pattern, like a real real pattern so far.

Troops of 6-7 can easily conquer territory defending with troops of 3. Then troops of 15 get smashed by troops of 2-3. AND in big numbers when its lets say 100vs100 the attacker wins 99% of the time, while the defender should actualy have the better chances, it ALWAYS fails to... I am here long time and this really is a pattern that does not belong in all other situations... in these specific situations the results are TOO OFTEN the same... to avoid going with the 99% statement coz ofc its not that high but if I do go in % I would say its closer to 80%

I KNOW that the site is not rigged for anybody but the randomness formula is rly not all that random, it does follow some kind of a pattern so I just follow it My 2 cents on the matter