[Idea] Pangea Map with Gradual Shrinking Outliers

[steelrain]

[Idea] Pangea Supercontinent with Gradual Shrinking Map

OK…. The general idea here is that game map gradually shrinks each round forcing players towards the center. The winner would be the last player standing……survival of the fittest.

Although this feature could be added to almost any map, the Pangea Supercontinent of 300 million years ago (before the continental drift) seems a natural fit, with its series of subsequent deluges and ice ages. Encroaching ice (or water) would gradually freeze over (or flood) outlying territories each round and remain that way through the remainder of the game. No addional play -either conquest or reinforcement could be made in frozen/flooded territories.

There would need to be some way of letting players know (at least a round in advance) which territories are going to freeze/flood next. Perhaps players could continue to get territorial bonuses for lands already frozen/flooded over.

Stylistically, I imagine the game could have Neanderthal flavor -although I recognize I am fudging with the genetic record a bit ;o)

So….what do you guys think?

Inputs?

Steelrain

 

[masterjskye]

I for one like the idea of a shrinking / changing map! I also like the idea of natural disasters happening. I'm imagining a meteor strike now...

 

[Shepherd]

Interesting idea. In other threads we've kicked around the idea of having maps that go through cycles; night and day in which the zombies come out at night, or a winter and summer map in which troops freeze or move more slowly in winter, etc. This would be yet another spin, though a bit more complicated as there would be more than just two stages. A night and day map would only need two images and two sets of rules that work together; a map with a gradually shrinking or changing landscape would need an entire series of images and rules. That doesn't make it impossible, it just makes development a challenge!

One complication I see will be in designing this map in such a way that the changes are clearly explained and predictable to the novice. We don't want a situation in which users who have played the map have a significant advantage over those who stumble into it for the first time. Whatever the map is going to to needs to be explained in the Brief tab - no surprises! Therefor I'd say less is more - having freezes and floods and earthquakes and meteor showers and shifting continents might be a bit too much to design and explain in a clear and concise way.

That said, if you want to take this challenge on, steelrain, I suspect you'd have some fans.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Here is a thought. The outer ring is shrinking and are identified before hand. But it is random as to which specific ones in the group are hit. I love random variables. That way people can complain the system is fixed in some way and actually favors someone for some reason. Like they do with dice rolls.

 

[Shepherd]

A simpler alternative to a pangea map, but one that still uses the play device suggested here, would be a Global Warming map. Coast regions could slowly bleed troops as sea levels rise, until one day they become huge neutrals. The Antarctic becomes habitable. Frozen tundra is replaced by lush farmland.

 

[steelrain]

I like all the ideas presented so far. Continental drift, meteor strikes, global warming creating new habitable lands…… however, the map I had imagined was far simpler. Instead of having both deluges and ice ages, for example, we could simplify to just one. (To simplify the discussion I will just use 'ice,' although the concept could work equally well for rising oceans, volcanic lava, nuclear waste, etc. ).

Territories on the perimeter that are about to be iced over could be identified by turning a slightly different color the round before giving players ample warning to make final preparations. If territories under ice are allowed to count towards bonuses, then I imagine players would be both pressing towards the center to avoid the ice, while at the same time trying to secure territories/troops behind them before they froze over.

gtivan’s idea of the encroaching 'ice' having a predictably randomized occurrence is interesting and definitely worth deeper consideration IMHO. By ‘predictably randomized’ (an oxymoron, if I ever heard one) I mean that only a certain percentage of those territories identified as about to be iced over would indeed freeze each round. So while the concentric circles of ice gradually moving inward would be predictable, the order in which the individual identified territories froze, could be random.

Perhaps at the start of the game, there could be a three round hiatus before the great age ice begins, giving players time to consolidate forces. Just an idea.

Anyway, i love the feedback

Steelrain

 

[Shepherd]

An "Ice Age" map would certainly be simpler to design, and would look pretty damned cool. And I agree that some degree of randomness would best fit the map - otherwise a user who has played the map a few times and has memorized the sequence of ice-ification would have a huge advantage over other players.

I also think it would be cool if the map continued to ice over regions until there was only one left; you either eliminate your opponents or you remain the last man standing. I'd say that the last region - the proverbial high ground - should be predictable, or else the end of the game could come down to random chance.

I see a few things being necessary... first we need a map. We could do the entire world, but a particular region of the glbe might be just as interesting and make more sense. (I'm not much of an ice-age historian, but I'm guessing most of Africa was not covered by glaciers.) Pick a part of the world that would have been effected by the ice age and make the regions small enough in scope that it would be reasonable for the entire thing to become ice.

Once we know what the land will look like we can start tinkering with how the regions will decay and turn neutral. My initial thoughts are to set up the regions in batches; batch A is farthest north, and each round one region in selected at random to freeze over. Once all of Batch A is frozen, Batch B regions begin to freeze. It's predictably random, and it makes sense from a coding point of view.

 

[steelrain]

Thanks for all the excellent recommendations. Right now I am working on a map of Iceland. My thinking is that it's rounder shape might make it more conducive to the type of map we are trying to create. Also, it fits well within the ice age theme (just think mini-pangea.) Iceland's volcanos might add a nice touch too....

I'm still in the concept stage, but here is what I am thinking so far: Three concentric rings that gradually freeze from the outside inward.

1st Ring (outermost ring) = 24 territories
2nd Ring (middle ring) = 12 territories
3rd Ring (center ring) = 6 territories
Center territory remains unfrozen.
Total territories = 43.

Each round 1/3 of the 'identified territories' freeze over. When the first ring is entirely frozen, then the ice-ification process starts over on the next ring. If we want to make the game last longer, we could add summer and winter seasons, where territories only froze over every other turn (in winter seasons).

Adapting this concept to the rugged contours of Iceland is slow given my elementary GIMP 2 skills. Hopefully I will have an preliminary image we can begin to work with in the near future.

Would welcome feedback...

Steelrain

 

[steelrain]

Did I mention that my GIMP 2 skills were primative.... I made a few changes since yesterday. Here is my rough map of Iceland.

OK here are the basics:
Three Rings:
1st Ring (Outermost) = 21 territories
2nd Ring (Middle) = 9 territories
3rd Ring (Center) = 3 territories
Eldur (Center Hub) = 1 territorry
Total = 34 territories & 10 commands (commands indicated by the colored bubbles around territory names)

New Twist: Each round one volcano erupts at random. The player occupying the territory with the erupting volcano bleeds off troops.

Recommendations?

Steelrain

 

[steelrain]

Here you can see the geological features of Iceland better than on most topographical maps. Since the time frame is prehistoric/ice age I was not going for an exact diplication of geographical features or place names but rather for map playability instead. I avoided some really long names like: Grindavik Strandakirkja and Vopnafjordhur, for obvious reasons. Icelanders, I discovered, seem to like really long names )

I would welcome suggestions on all aspects of this map (place names, geological features, territory boundaries, etc.) Just please give me a reason for the suggested change.

Steelrain

 

[CrowTRobot]

the ice crept in from the north? What about a north to south sweep theme? You'd get the same results, and it wouldn't need to be as dramatic as going down to 1 territory to achieve the necessary resource pressures.

IMHO, Ice should lack resource value. That's the reason you're driven off. Everyone becomes poorer and more crowded. Yes, I can envision a rapid descent to Lord of the Flies...

 

[Shepherd]

Interesting first look, steelrain. I think Iceland is a great subject for a map of this type - during the "Little Ice Ages" of the past half-millennium Iceland saw a severe loss of farmlands and forests, and great loss of life.

You've recently posted ideas about creeping ice, seasonal changes, and volcanic activity. My suggestion would be to keep it simple - one or two new gameplay device will be plenty provided it is done right.

I'd also suggest that the creeping ice happen consistently from turn to turn, and very gradually - if a player were to be unlucky enough to own all three of the regions that go neutral in an early round they could be all but out of the game before they even have a chance to do anything.

34 regions and 10 commands - that's a smallish map with a lot of commands. You have to assume that everybody is going to abandon the outer ring early and go right after the middle of the map, which is only 13 regions. And of those 13 regions some share a command with coastal regions - commands which are going to be rendered useless early in the game (especially if three regions decay each round). Maybe I'm not seeing the map right, but I only see one command which does not include a coastal region - everybody is going to scramble for that command early, and if somebody is lucky enough to get a central drop and capture/hold it, they win.

We have some other maps in development that employ flexible commands - say there are seven regions in the command, but you only need to hold four regions for the bonus. Such a structure might work very nicely on a map like this, because it means that a region could ice over without rendering the entire command moot for the rest of the game. Doing so might encourage players to take a chance with the coastal regions.

I said it's a smallish map, but it's especially small when you consider that it keeps getting smaller as the game progresses. If you can crank it up to 42+ regions the game will last longer. I just happen to be aware of an Iceland map that one of our artists made a few years back - it's got 36 regions, and it doesn't even use the high ground.

 

[steelrain]

We have some other maps in development that employ flexible commands - say there are seven regions in the command, but you only need to hold four regions for the bonus. Such a structure might work very nicely on a map like this, because it means that a region could ice over without rendering the entire command moot for the rest of the game. Doing so might encourage players to take a chance with the coastal regions.

Excellent ideas! I esspecially like the idea of flexiable commands. One of the problems I was having in my design was in trying to fit the concentric circles concept onto the rugged contours of Iceland. I want a map that is more-or-less balanced, but does not look like....well.....concentric circles. Also I was trying to make sure that all the coastal territories had equal access to the central territories. With the flexiable command it gives me more room to let the geography dictate the natural territory divides and commands.

Adding additional territories will not be a problem. I might even borrow some territories from the map above. Btw, is there a recommended ratio for territorries to commands?

In terms of unique map features, my priorities would be:
1.) Gradually/random creeping ice that freezes territory for the remainder of game
2.) Volcano/s that radomly erupt bleeding troops from player occupying that territory

Both the ice age and volcano features fit believeably into the Iceland/Pangea theme. In fact, it would be really cool if the centermost territory was a volanco. Similar to capturing the tower in the Twelve Domains map, capturing the central territory should come with some risk that makes it more difficult to hold against opponents. Also it is believable that a volcano would be last to freeze.

Btw, I hope we are not just dreaming here. Can this kind of map be realistically made? This is way, WAY beyond my ability.

Anyway, hopefully I can get another sketch up in the not too distant future. Until then, keep the ideas comin'

Steelrain

 

[Shepherd]

With the flexiable command it gives me more room to let the geography dictate the natural territory divides and commands.

Right, and you can make the commands larger (and fewer) without making them impossible to capture.

Adding additional territories will not be a problem. I might even borrow some territories from the map above. Btw, is there a recommended ratio for territorries to commands?

There's no hard and fast rule, but I'm sure some of the regulars would have some thoughts on this. It's nice to have a mix of large and small commands, and you want to provide multiple areas of the map in which a player could get off to a good start - if a player is going to have an advantage by getting Region X on the drop, the map needs some rethinking.

In terms of unique map features, my priorities would be:
1.) Gradually/random creeping ice that freezes territory for the remainder of game
2.) Volcano/s that radomly erupt bleeding troops from player occupying that territory

Yeah, I think this makes sense. Depending on how we write the rule for the randomly disappearing troops, we may be able to use one rule for both features. We'll have to put our heads together and figure out how to best code this in, but that can come after we know what we want the map to do.

Btw, I hope we are not just dreaming here. Can this kind of map be realistically made? This is way, WAY beyond my ability.

Absolutely, though it will obviously require some new rules to be coded into the site; it'll be low on the site development priority list, but that's OK since we're aren't close to being finished anyway. And all we're asking from you is gameplay development - you've shown that this is already within your comfort zone.

 

[steelrain]

Excellent inputs and thanks for the encouragement. I'm hoping to get another draft up soon.

In my map reseach I came across a Diplomacy varient which does something similar to what are attempting to create here. Instead of encroaching ice, it has flood water gradually moving from the perimeter of the map inward. Scroll over the sequental years at the top of the map to see the progression.

http://www.maproom.co.uk/maps/deluge/deluge.html#f

Steelrain

 

[steelrain]

Took RJBeal's map and made some adaptations.

51 Territorries
9 Flexiable Commands
3 Volcanos

Note: Mountain ranges and rivers are inpassable. Rivers (between Reykjavik/South commands & Northern/Northeast commands are passable only at fords.

Hofsjokull would be the last territory to freeze over. Hofsjokull could either be apart of the central command or its own separate command (currently it is being counted in central command).

Suggestions welcome.

 

[RjBeals]

Hey steelrain - excellent thread here, sorry to say i missed it until tonight. My MC time has been limited recently, but I'm happy to follow this. And love your avatar.

Very cool idea. I'm all for maps that would "change" in the middle of play. As shep said, it would require some new rules to be coded. The bad news is this could take a while. I've had a map, Africa, ready for almost 2 years just waiting for a bug fix, and it's still sitting in dev.

And the africa bug is with decaying troops. Sounds like this map would be using those as well, with the volcanoes and such.

I would recommend you develop this though. It's fun and you'll eventually have a finished product that you can play on, or at the very least a good time developing it.

Also, we have more space available for maps here than when I made that Icelad map for the conk site. We could split some of those regions up even smaller and still be fine on size/space. I would suggest it also, not so close to the conk map.

Let me know your thoughts on that - I like what you have so far. I'll subscribe to this thread for follow ups.

Rob.

 

[Shepherd]

Hofsjokull would be the last territory to freeze over. Hofsjokull could either be apart of the central command or its own separate command (currently it is being counted in central command).

Wait, I thought the volcanos also spread lava and death? At first I thought it too confusing, but now I think it might add balance to eliminate regions from the inside-out as well as from the outside-in. Makes life risky wherever you try to live, and it means the entire map becomes gradually less predictable.

It will be fun trying to sort out which ring disappears when.

 

[steelrain]

And the africa bug is with decaying troops. Sounds like this map would be using those as well, with the volcanoes and such.

How exactly are the African decaying troops coded? Are they designed to decay a random number of the exisiting troops or a percentage? Or do they decay a set number of troops? Just curious. Once the kinks have been worked out of the African map, it is definately possible that a similar code could be used here?

Also, we have more space available for maps here than when I made that Icelad map for the conk site. We could split some of those regions up even smaller and still be fine on size/space. I would suggest it also, not so close to the conk map.

I agree. I think we could easily increase the number of territories to 60+ and still have room for names and troop containers. The question would be what is the right number of territories to have for this type of game?

RjBeals, thanks for the encouragement and great suggustions. And for letting me borrow your AWESOME map as a template.

 

[steelrain]

Wait, I thought the volcanos also spread lava and death? At first I thought it too confusing, but now I think it might add balance to eliminate regions from the inside-out as well as from the outside-in. Makes life risky wherever you try to live, and it means the entire map becomes gradually less predictable.

Very intriguing idea. It would definately mix things up. Shep, are you imaging one large central volanco erupting and the lava and destruction spreading from the inside out.....or multiple smaller volancos erupting at various locations. Based on the map below the geography of Iceland would lend itself to either option.