Balkans - or - The Balkan Peninsula

[Shepherd]

thanks for the update, Pats, as it's much easier to understand what's going on there. No need to get much more caught up in the graphics, as that will get sorted out later.

And yes, let's talk about bonuses.

 

[patsfan44]

It's still Instanbul instead of Istanbul

Will be changed.

thanks for the update, Pats, as it's much easier to understand what's going on there. No need to get much more caught up in the graphics, as that will get sorted out later.

And yes, let's talk about bonuses.

Yeah I know. Just had to make something more appealing.

As far as bonuses:
Moldova:2
Slovenia:2
Albania:2
Montenegro:1
Bosnia and Herzegovina:3
Serbia:2 w/Kosovo:4
Greece:4
Turkey thing:2
Macedonia:4
Hungary:5
Romania:7
Bulgaria:7
Ships:1

I might have got all of these bonuses messed, but there they are.

 

[smi]

let me organise this and suggest some changes

Moldova          3 borders | 4 regions : +2 troops bonus | no capitol 
Slovenia         3 borders | 4 regions : +2 troops bonus | [B]has capitol [/B]
Albania          3 borders | 4 regions : +2 troops bonus | no capitol
Montenegro       2 borders | 2 regions : +1 troops bonus | no capitol
Bosn. /hers.     4 borders | 4 regions : +3 troops bonus | no capitol
Serbia:          4 borders | 3 regions : +2 troops bonus | no capitol
Kosovo:          2 borders | 2 regions : +1 troops bonus | [B]has capitol[/B]
Greece:          4 borders | 5 regions : +3 troops bonus | no capitol 
Turkey thing:    3 borders | 3 regions : +1 troops bonus | no capitol
FYROM     :      6 borders | 6 regions : +5 troops bonus | no capitol 
Hungary:         4 borders | 7 regions : +4 troops bonus | no capitol
Romania:         6 borders | 9 regions : +6 troops bonus | [B]has capitol[/B]
Bulgaria:        6 borders | 9 regions : +6 troops bonus | [B]has capitol[/B]

capitols are considered part of the commands ( you need to capture capitol as well for the command bonus )

+1 bonus for holding any capitol |(total +1 from capitols)
+1 bonus for holding 2 capitols |(total +3 from capitols)
+2 bonus for holding 3 capitols |(total +5 from capitols)
+4 bonus for holding 4 capitols |(total +8 from capitols)


Ships:1 neutral - auto resseting at end of each players turn
Capitols:2 neutral


Renamed Macedonia to FYROM as i think this is more correct historically (macedonia is where Thessaloniki is labeled - Alexander the great etc)


I hope this helps on the map balance ; what may need some some adjusting is Montenegro and FYROM being too good ( FYROM if you hold thessaloniki and/or pristina as well )

Also i'd like to suggest to make some capitols border with more than one region

 

[aym]

Hey guys,

I'm pretty new here and not a poster (in general), but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on some minor details since I've been to the area a few times.

Nothing big:
1. The opening in the western mountains might make more sense being between Albania and Kosovo (to reflect current situation on the ground), and would also serve to make the corridor from Greece to Montenegro a little shorter. Although this might make Montenegro too easy to hold and expand from, so not 100% sure.
2. Name suggestion: Budapest can be split up on both sides of the Danube, as it's historically been two cities separated by the Danube, with Buda on the west and Pest on the East. This would also get rid of the long name on the west side, not that that changes much.

Looking great so far, can't wait to play this map!

 

[Shepherd]

re. the capitals... if we create a bonus for holding one capital, then we have to code all of the capitals as starting neutrals because it wouldn't be fair to start somebody with a bonus. (The game engine won't let us do it anyway - it's set up to keep a player from starting with a bonus.) We can do this, of course, but the down side is that we've eliminated 4 starting positions from the map, and we'd done a lot of work to get the map to 72 regions to facilitate 12p and 24p games.

Same goes for the seas.

I don't personally care which way we go because I don't play a lot of 24p games, but I'd be curious to know how much this is a priority for other users.

Coding the capitals to work within the current structure will also need to be considered. On the Middle East map I kept it simple: +1 for three oil wells, +4 for all four (big points for having a monopoly). The reason that's easy is that there are four combinations of three, and if you have all four you have all four +1 combinations. Getting too tricky with the capitals bonuses will require some math. It would be most simple to just give a bonus for holding all of the capitals rather than partial bonuses for holding some. (Actually, the simplest solution from my end would be to have no capitals bonus!)

If there's a bonus for holding the Seas I'd advocate making it one bonus for all three, otherwise I know we'll break the game (I did it on the Japan map).

 

[BAB00N]

Looks great guys, love the bridges, mountains etc. Great idea Pats! Oh and i was especially pleased to see that the region name "Turkey Thing" is being given the proper respect it deserves, continuing to have a presence.
:congrats: :rock:

 

[Blondo]

Looks great guys, love the bridges, mountains etc. Great idea Pats! Oh and i was especially pleased to see that the region name "Turkey Thing" is being given the proper respect it deserves, continuing to have a presence.
:congrats: :rock:

Either of these names could be used (abbreviated Eastern & Turkish):

- E.Thrace
- T.Thrace

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I think you should have to have 2 capitals to get the bonus. +1 for holding 2, +2 for holding 3, etc. That way they don't have to start as neuts.

 

[patsfan44]

I think you should have to have 2 capitals to get the bonus. +1 for holding 2, +2 for holding 3, etc. That way they don't have to start as neuts.

I agree to this or no bonuses for them and just not have them for a bonus. Either or.

Also I think it should just be 1 bonus for all three sea regions.

 

[Shepherd]

Hmmm... in trying to get the border right along the Croatia/Bos&Herz/Montenegro coast, I've run into a a bit if a puzzle. Bos & Herz hsa very little coastline, and Croatia actually continues on south non-contiguously, and then borders Montenegro. I might be inclined to just sweep it under the rug and ignore it completely, but Dubrovnik is there so it's a politically and economically significant area.

So, may I propose:
1. Add a "Dubrovnik" region to Croatia, and connect it to the rest of Croatia via a short sea route. It's already a bitch of a command anyway, with five border regions (out of five total), so making it a six/six doesn't help matters any. But it's sandwiched between two of the best starts on the map, so I'm not crying any tears.
2. Dropping Macedonia down to four regions, because it's a graphics challenge with five little regions/troops containers/region titles.
3. Moving the mountain pass south, as Aym suggested.

 

[patsfan44]

Hmmm... in trying to get the border right along the Croatia/Bos&Herz/Montenegro coast, I've run into a a bit if a puzzle. Bos & Herz hsa very little coastline, and Croatia actually continues on south non-contiguously, and then borders Montenegro. I might be inclined to just sweep it under the rug and ignore it completely, but Dubrovnik is there so it's a politically and economically significant area.

So, may I propose:
1. Add a "Dubrovnik" region to Croatia, and connect it to the rest of Croatia via a short sea route. It's already a bitch of a command anyway, with five border regions (out of five total), so making it a six/six doesn't help matters any. But it's sandwiched between two of the best starts on the map, so I'm not crying any tears.
2. Dropping Macedonia down to four regions, because it's a graphics challenge with five little regions/troops containers/region titles.
3. Moving the mountain pass south, as Aym suggested.

I am fine with that, but also any man could swim that distance... Anyways, holding Croatia after getting Slovenia is still possible so it is alright.

 

[Shepherd]

I think you should have to have 2 capitals to get the bonus. +1 for holding 2, +2 for holding 3, etc. That way they don't have to start as neuts.

So, let's talk about this capital bonus idea. By my count there are 13 countries on this map, and Kosovo would make 14. Are we talking about putting a capital star on each one, and giving a bonus for holding all 14? A +1 for holding any two of 14 capitals means that there are 91 possible combinations, none of which would be able to be held to start the game. I can guarantee that this will upset the server.

I'll bend to the will of the community on this one, but it requires some thought to make it work.

 

[patsfan44]

So, let's talk about this capital bonus idea. By my count there are 13 countries on this map, and Kosovo would make 14. Are we talking about putting a capital star on each one, and giving a bonus for holding all 14? A +1 for holding any two of 14 capitals means that there are 91 possible combinations, none of which would be able to be held to start the game. I can guarantee that this will upset the server.

I'll bend to the will of the community on this one, but it requires some thought to make it work.

From what I understood the bonuses were more like Strategic cities bonuses, than capitals. The strategic cities cards and smi were talking about were those regions(cities IRL) that were surrounded by another region. i.e. Peshkopi,Sofia, that one thing in Moldova, and Pristina.

I was thinking something better would be the regions with a certain amount of population. Like all the regions with 5 million population or over. Or just the 6 most populous areas.

 

[Shepherd]

Hmm, another thing I've come across - we don't have the path of the Danube anywhere near correct when it approaches the sea. Instead of following the border it goes north, well into Romania before turning east again. ??

 

[patsfan44]

If we want to use an impassable river, the Danube runs along most of the Romania-Bulgaria border. The Maritsa runs between Greece and Turkey, but I'm not sure that helps the map any since both are already border regions - and Greece and Turkey are historically prone to conflict.

Yeah I might need some reading comprehension skills...Well it looks like it finishes on the border with Ukraine.

 

[Shepherd]

I think that the "strategic cities" (those completely surrounded by one region) are already quite unique and have the advantage of being easily defended.

I'd be game for some other kind of bonus, however, like the Oil Wells on the Middle East map. What's unique to the region?

Edit: what about key centers of the Eastern Orthodox church?

 

[Cardinalsrule]

From what I understood the bonuses were more like Strategic cities bonuses, than capitals. The strategic cities cards and smi were talking about were those regions(cities IRL) that were surrounded by another region. i.e. Peshkopi,Sofia, that one thing in Moldova, and Pristina.

that's what I had in mind. The 4 terts that are surrounded

 

[patsfan44]

I think that the "strategic cities" (those completely surrounded by one region) are already quite unique and have the advantage of being easily defended.

I'd be game for some other kind of bonus, however, like the Oil Wells on the Middle East map. What's unique to the region?

Well not sure if this helps.

From wikipedia:

Resources of energy are scarce, except in the territory of Kosovo, where considerable coal, lead, zinc, chromium, silver deposits are located.[21] Other deposits of coal, especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and Bosnia also exist. Lignite deposits are widespread in Greece. Petroleum is most notably present in Romania, although scarce reserves exist in Greece, Serbia, Albania and Croatia. Natural gas deposits are scarce. Hydropower is in wide use, with over 1,000 dams. The often relentless bora wind is also being harnessed for power generation.

Metal ores are more usual than other raw materials. Iron ore is rare but in some countries there is a considerable amount of copper, zinc, tin, chromite, manganese, magnesite and bauxite. Some metals are exported.

 

[patsfan44]

Where are the Balkan Peninsula inhabitants when you need them.

 

[Shepherd]

Hmm, gas and lead are boring. I'd rather see nothing than clutter the map up with something insignificant. There's already a lot going on and it will be a challenging map to play.

If we want to add a twist, we could add a shipping lane to the Ionian Sea, west of Greece, and connect it to Athens and the seaport in Albania. In that way the four seas are all chained via seaports - you could hop all the way around the map in eight regions.