Ask the masters!

[LordAdef]

Hello MajCom,

I made this thread in order to collect information for a tutorial dedicated to Newbies. Every Vet is invited to colaborate. I might get all the information here and build a propper tutorial.

As in Chess, I am parsing MajCom into "Opening", "Middle game" and "Ending". For now I am not touching team games, only singles. Maybe in the future if things go well and people enjoy it.

I chose to begin by asking a couple of questions which I find relevant. I count on YOU Experienced MajComers to help out.

Let's Jive

 

[LordAdef]

Let's begin, and before I forget I should appologize for any English mistake I make since English is not my native tongue.

1. What are the first things to do to become a good player?
2. How can you study MajCom from the archives? What (and how) to look in a game in order to study it.
3. Is it advisable for a Newby to stick to a specific map?
4. Do you frequently study your position in between turns?

Thank you!

 

[Cardinalsrule]

One of the first things you do is, don't let the dice dictate your strategy to you. For example, lots of people, if they attack their first turn 6 v 3 men, and lose, ending up, say 3v2, will continue attacking, and even attack other places 3v3 (2v2 dice). That is a great way to dig yourself a big, freakin' hole that you may never get out of. Rolling 2v2 dice is a LOSER, more than 70% of the time you'll lose 2 or split 1 and 1, which still leaves you rolling 1v1 to take the tert (40% odds of success there.) Attacking 2 dice against 2 should only be done in desperation, if you HAVE to have it to win or avoid defeat. If you start a game attacking 6 troops against 3 and lose 3 or 4 troops, STOP. Regroup and wait for your next turn.

 

[Bluebonnet]

1. What are the first things to do to become a good player?
Ask questions and listen

2. How can you study MajCom from the archives? What (and how) to look in a game in order to study it.
Hard to look at old games to study them. They only show you snap shots at end of round.

3. Is it advisable for a Newby to stick to a specific map?
Depends. All maps are not created equal and are played differently. If still learning basics, stick to the simpler maps. S America, Classic Evolved, Middle East, etc Nukes and 12 Domains are their own seperate critters.

4. Do you frequently study your position in between turns?
Of course. It is easier to spot what the other people are thinking and doing.



I find team games to be easier than multiplayer singles. Just have to know one secret. Communicate and work as a team.

The strategies are easier and you get the benefit of learning from others. Kinda strange, I have found larger team games to be easier than smaller team games. It is all based on who is on your team. With larger teams it is harder to communicate, so if you have a team that works well, chances are they have a MAJOR advantage to a team that is just thrown together.

2 teams that communicate well and are skilled is a definite challenge though.

 

[BeanZ]

Hey Adef,
The best resource you can take a look at is the wiki. I know that a lot of it is outdated with images/videos missing that were lost in some of the updates, but that is going to change in a week or so, after my exams finish, I'll get to cleanup duties...

A good place to start would be the How to win section.


Your Questions

1. What are the first things to do to become a good player?

• The best thing to do to become a better player is to play more games, try and see why you're losing (if you are) and if you can't see then ask... the vast majority of people here are super nice and won't bite.
• If you want to ask for help and can't find it in games, the forums or the wiki then a good place to look is the Veteran/Newbie games (second and third games on the find games list) the veterans that join the game are there to meet new people, have fun and impart knowledge so go and have fun in those

2. How can you study MajCom from the archives? What (and how) to look in a game in order to study it.

• The two main sources of knowledge on majcom are the wiki which hopefully has all the answers and the forums, chances are if you have a question somebody else has had the same one, search (search bar is on the top right) the forums for threads based on your question.
• The very first thing you should do in a game is open the brief tab and make sure you understand how the map works before you start playing. If you still don't know how the map works from the brief tab, then there's always the Maps page on the wiki for more answers.

3. Is it advisable for a Newby to stick to a specific map?

• Starting out with the easy maps is a good idea for your first few games. The maps that don't have extra features are The Classic Series so probably play your first few on those, but the variety of maps is one of the best features on majcom so don't be afraid to branch out to other's they're all super fun!!

4. Do you frequently study your position in between turns?

• I usually don't look at games until my turn (If I played less than 30-50 games at once it might be more feasible ) but there's still a lot to look for in the game engine if you think you might be missing something between your turns.
• The record tab whilst it doesn't show everything, shows enough that you can usually tell what everyone else has done during their turns.
  If you're not sure if somebody has moved in their last turn you can always look at the start of the last round by pressing the arrow to the left of the round counter
  
  

Other than that here are some (I just re-read my post and yeah it's a lot ) of my personal thoughts, splitting the game up into opening, mid and endgames like you did...

Opening

As Cards said, you need to be flexible when you're starting off. It's always someone's first thought to go for one of the smaller commands to get yourself set up. Which is a good first strategy but if someone else looks like they're going to contest the command a lot of the time it is better to not waste troops fighting against them when a 3rd or 4th player might be grabbing easy commands in the process.​

If you do find yourself fighting over a command...

• In an escalite or flat rate game, you're fighting over a command early and you dont think you're going to be able to hold it, then the best idea is to find the least sought after command left and move there if you can.
• In an escalate game, sometimes the best idea is to not go for a command at all (still a good strategy) there are some things that you want to do.
  1. Do your best to keep your troop count as high as possible, try to take a single territory each turn (if you can, target 1's people have left open)
  2. Try to keep your troops spread out as much as possible, having other people between your troops makes you a much harder target to eliminate

Middlegame

• If you do get a good to reasonable start then one of the best things to do is to try to look like you're not the biggest fish in the pond (you don't want to appear as the strongest because then you'll be the obvious target for others).
• If after the opening you, by far, have the biggest troop count, then you need to try and look at other ideas to keep the others from attacking you. Sometimes the diplomacy tab is best use here, if you can call treaties with others (either by just asking them, or by strong-arming them with large amounts of troops on their borders (after all you're the big fish)) then hopefully you can limit the number of borders that you need to defend and it might become much more manageable task in staying as the big fish.
• Once again the best strategy to keep yourself from being targeted form elimination is to keep your troops spread out, if you have other players in between your troops it just makes it that much harder for others to take you out in one turn.

Endgame

Escalate Games

The vast majority of escalate games are decided by somebody running out a string of eliminations. The reserve count quickly gets bigger than what people have on the board.​

• Once again one of the best strategies is to keep your troops spread out so it's hard to take you out
• If you can then try and get treaties on some of your borders so you can concentrate your troops into a single (or the lowest ammount of territories) the bigger the single stack you have the more chance you're going to be able to run through someone to get the elimination.

Escalite & Flat Rate Games

Quite often if you're playing an escalite or flat rate game and you get deep into the game it will divulge into a stalemate (everybody stuck with relatively the same troop number and no obvious way to proceed). This is the most important situation to use the diplomacy tab. If you can agree with another player to focus somebody out or to not attack each other so you can try and focus someone out then you can make progress. If you inevitably get stuck however there are two common solutions that we end up going with.​

Deciding games

If a game gets stuck, commonly a side game is played to decide on a winner who gets to take the first game. Usually an escalate or Assassins game is played on the same map to try and get a clear winner who gets to take the first game as well.
Assassins games are a whole other cup of tea​

Reduced troop count

Players sometimes agree to each turn end with less troops than they started with to eventually get a winner​

 

[LordAdef]

Thank you Card, gtivan and Beanz !! A lot of information already!

The idea of this future compilation is to function as a "one step further" the Wiki, making both complimentary.

Before I move onto the game parts:

1. Any question I should be asking at this point and am missing?
2. How would you determine where the Opening ends and the Middlegame begins? Would it be when the first set of reserves are deployed?
3. How about the Endgame? How could we determine its entering stage?
4. Still generally: when NOT to look for a card?
5. Handling Reserve deployment: how important monitoring players Reserves is and how to take advantage of it.

Once again, thank you!
Ps: Newbies, Noobs etc... Please leave your question, but try to stay where we are at this point.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I'm going to address #4 here, and by extension, #5. When you're in flat-rate, or escalite, there's no reason generally NOT to look for a card, but if you don't get one, it's not crushing, either. Escalate is different. Generally, as BeanZ said, the game ends when someone dominoes the board, taking one after another, turning in their sets, moving on. The trick, then, is to be the one who has the cards worth enough to take someone and start the ball rolling. I've read, in a big game, you don't want to turn in the 12-set. The idea is, the in-between sets, where you can't actually kill anyone, but you use your cards, are not game-winners. You want to turn in a bigger set, and be the one who gets the ball rolling. So, back to when NOT to look for a card. If you and everyone else has 4, you don't want to be the one to take that 5th card first, and have to turn in a small set. So sometimes you might want to just deploy and stop, move to the back of the line, as it were. Only problem is, other savvy players will be doing the same thing.

 

[namelochil]

It really depends on whom you're playing.

Playing against noobs, especially on escalate, the spider-turtle tactic often works. Don't take any commands, but look like you're trying to do so; don't take a card every turn; basically just look weak and wait as they all desperately attack each other and try to hold on to commands. Then, when the reserve value is high enough (usually 15 or 20), you kill em all.

Playing against vets, just do the opposite--play like a noob: be really aggressive, take commands, take cards, trade in sets as soon as you get them, build up your troop count. You can rely on your opponents to be cautious and overly patient. Most vets develop the habit of "just stay in the game as long as possible." As such, barring some notable exceptions, you don't need to worry about them throwing hissy fits or sacrificing themselves to take you out of the lead. Usually, because of your high troop count, you'll end up with a chance at the end.

As for the chess analogy--Opening, Middlegame, Endgame--it really depends on the reserve setting. It probably makes sense to talk only about escalate in this regard. When you introduce flat rate and escalite, I think the analogy fails.

 

[CaptSweatpants]

Playing against vets, just do the opposite--play like a noob: be really aggressive, take commands, take cards, trade in sets as soon as you get them, build up your troop count. You can rely on your opponents to be cautious and overly patient.

I've been playing like this for over a year and still haven't got past sergeant... All those cautious vets kicked my @$$ : o )

The thing I have learned (am learning?) is patience. It is tempting to try to make something happen... especially for a new player playing in only 4 games. I think cards comments about forcing dice rolls reflects that desire to do something significant on your turn.

I really don't have any strategy suggestions other than that. It would be ridiculous to think I know something this group of killers doesn't. Thanks to beanz though for that thing about the arrow... I didn't know that.

I really need to read the Wiki someday... maybe the rules too.

 

[CaptSweatpants]

I've been playing like this for over a year and still haven't got past sergeant... All those cautious vets kicked my @$$ : o )

I lied... it's been TWO years !

 

[LordAdef]

1. We talked about the best Maps for Newbies at MajCom. Now, what's the most suitable multi-player singles for them? I read somewhere that 1v1 is rather difficult, but how about less players vs many players game? What would you suggest a Newby should go for or which one should one avoid?

 

[Bluebonnet]

1v1 is by far easier. Overcoming the first turn advantage on some maps is harder.

othwerwise i think the resy is very subjective.

 

[th-child]

Let me add my answers in reverse order:

4. Do you frequently study your position in between turns?

If I find a particular game exciting, than yes, obsessively. Otherwise, I don't give a damn.


3. Is it advisable for a Newby to stick to a specific map?

I think the difference is bigger between game types (duels, multi singles, team games, etc.) than between maps.
Now, should you stick to a specific game type? Yes, I think you should. Try to find a type that interests you and you understand well. All the other types will only bring disappointment so you can disapppoint yourself later.


2. How can you study MajCom from the archives? What (and how) to look in a game in order to study it.

I never had the board game as a kid, so I learned to play here. I found the wiki section awesome for a beginner (open wiki, scroll down to 'How to win' and 'Essays').

Also, you should always, always know the odds. This is also covered in the wiki I believe, but I can't find the link right now -- however there used to be a dispatch for it on the games page.

And here is an odds calculator I use: http://diceroll.stritar.net/risk.html


1. What are the first things to do to become a good player?

As I said, I learned the ropes here on this site. It took me quite a long time to reach 1500 points, but from that level it was a very rapid rise to over 3000.

2 things helped me.

I found that the game type I enjoy the most is doubles. If you are a new player, play doubles. Try to find partners who talk. The chattier, the better. Be a chatty partner yourself.

Chattiness is not an indicator of skills of course, for example dorcee, who I play most often with, is a mute, usually she only writes in the chat because I'm nagging her. Namelochil or Cagey are also very concise (or just don't like to talk to me), and though they are among the top players of the site, good luck with getting some information out of them.

Gtivan, cardinals, packerhawkeye and flagg on the other hand are awesome when it comes to discussing basic strategies. Dalinar, ajdedo, masterjskye and chilly, too, but they don't play that many games (or not with me, at least). (Sorry if I'm leaving someone out. I'm not listing by skill, I only mention my regular partners lately.) Sebrim, ndrm31, tyro, geoffrey, ne4osu1970, beanz, sundicekid, ericj -- these are all chatty and good players, and hey, I'm very verbose myself, too.

I gave here at least 10 names -- whenever, I say, whenever you see a free spot beside or against them, jump right in and start a conversation.

This advice is not just for you but for every new players: play doubles, and look for the talkative guys.

Okay, so this was 1 thing. The other thing is always check the record tab on your turn. We are all rational players, so our moves can be predicted. Get a smaller game, take a look at the initial drop and try to guess everyone's moves. Later, you can check in the records if you were right.

Play fixed force. As a golden member, you can do that, and as there is no dice-luck involved there, you should be able to have an educated guess about other player's moves for at least 2 turns in advance. Take the time to analyze every player's position (not in all of your games, but at least in some), and when you realize you understand and can predict for example cardinals' moves, you're on the right track.


--------------------

Playing against noobs, especially on escalate, the spider-turtle tactic often works. [..] Playing against vets, just do the opposite--play like a noob: be really aggressive, take commands, take cards, trade in sets as soon as you get them, build up your troop count. You can rely on your opponents to be cautious and overly patient. Most vets develop the habit of "just stay in the game as long as possible."

Wow, very much wow (copyright Doge), very good point.

I just realised a few games ago that I always let myself to be bullied. I don't know if my despicable opponents realised this as well and are using this against me, or if it just a coincidence, but I lost a few games very bitterly lately becuase of my, well, general cowardness and pussyfooting. I decided to spice it up and do random kamikazes in the future, because I don't like to be the humiliated one.

I think changing your aggressive/defensive game is of utmost importance, I'm trying to learn it (it's tough for me, I don't think I'm one of the very-very top all-around players here, but I'm 100% sure any top 5 lists of the best defensive players has to include me. I have to learn how to be aggressive again... it's tough, as I said, I'm a disgusting coward.) I'm not sure if this is an advice for noobs, but still a very important point. So wow.

 

[namelochil]

. . . but I'm 100% sure any top 5 lists of the best defensive players has to include me.

Indeed. I would put you, Cagey, and Dalinar at the top of any such list.

I can't really think of any obvious choices for a "best offensive players" list. ....maybe marc369 and PITMAN212--they can usually be counted on to attack.

But maybe that just means they should be on the "most aggressive" list.

In any case, I can think of a few obvious choices for the "most offensive" list.... but that's a different subject altogether.

 

[FLAGG]

Ok. I see that Th-child mentioned me (thanks for the compliments). So I will chime in.

1) I think Th-child and Dorcee are just about the best doubles players on this site. If you are in a game with them, just watch them and learn.

2) I did a few triples games with Th-child and Dorcee, and learned even more. It is about time I teamed with Th-child again in a doubles game (I don't think he would let me move in on Dorcee and team with her).

3) Don't play many games. I have 3 going on right now, with one awaiting. 2-6 is a good number. When I started on this site I was often playing 15-20. I could never follow them all - or stay strategic in, or focused in a game. When I started playing LESS games - I did better in the games I was playing, and my rating went up.

4) Once you think you are getting good - play doubles with someone really good (Th-child put out a good list). I am still learning new strategies from others all the time.

5) I thought I knew how to play - I thought I was getting it - then AAFITZ took me under his wing - and taught me how to really play.

6) Private Diplomatic messages is a way for ME to win a lot of games. I am very good at it. However it takes all the fun out of the game - because regardless of if you thought you were being fair or not, EVERYONE on the map will start to hate you - if you are good at it. For me, Part of being on this page is to make friends and have fun. THEREFORE, I am done with Diplomatic messages (not diplomatic treaties, mind you). Unless I see that the rest of the people in the map are using it against me - I don't use it. Now I just say things on the open chatter.

*** I with there was a setting to Eliminate "Diplomatic Messages" from the game as an option in the game settings. I have brought this up many times on the chat forums.

7) Follow the game between moves. This is a must to play the game well and figure out others strategy. But you can only do this if you don't have too many games going on - see note #3

8) Don't miss a turn. Don't team with someone who will miss a turn. If you HAVE to miss - put someone you trust in charge of your moves. Make sure you teammate feels the same way.

Later,

FLAGG

 

[Bluebonnet]

"I think changing your aggressive/defensive game is of utmost importance, I'm trying to learn it (it's tough for me, I don't think I'm one of the very-very top all-around players here, but I'm 100% sure any top 5 lists of the best defensive players has to include me. I have to learn how to be aggressive again... it's tough, as I said, I'm a disgusting coward.) I'm not sure if this is an advice for noobs, but still a very important point. "

I just realized why I totally suck at multi singles. I hate defense. Bores me to death and I tend to attack too much and piss others off. Multi Singles is usually about building and waiting while others weaken themselves (me).

Now 1v1 or head to head team games is a different story. All about attacking.

 

[Dalinar]

I'll try and add a few things I didn't see others mention.

1. Learn to see the difference between micro and macro, by which I mean that you should separate your strategic goals from how those goals are achieved. Obviously troop position and what you can do will heavily influence your strategy, but too often I see people use sub-optimal ways of attacking and defending to achieve a given strategic goal. Learn to use the troops you have better and you'll win more games - there are people over 3,000 who are far from mastering this, so it can definitely give you an edge (I'm still learning things occasionally for that matter).

1v1 is the easiest way to be forced into micro thinking. Often, the best objective or an objective nearly as good is obvious, so much more of the game hinges on better execution of your strategy. Later, this should translate into better multiplayer gameplay as well.

2. To riff on what Namelochil said, I generally would agree with him. I don't think he's seen me play much aggressive multiplayer because I rarely find it worthwhile after a cost/benefit analysis - I can and will if I have a strong position and think the troop cost of expanding is worthwhile. I just find wars of attrition to be so detrimental I end up avoiding them almost all cost. Aggression is expensive so I weigh it very carefully.

Name is right that you can sometimes get away with more with higher level players (with my attitude) who are more passive. I think there's a more general rule - try and be inside the other player's heads. Realize how they'll react to your moves, and you'll be ahead of the curve for a long while.

E.g. a 10 person escalate Africa game is different from a 5 person escalate Africa game. If you take a small command in a ten person game, it's rarely in people's interests to break you. Are you lowering their chances of winning? Yes, but it would lower them more to spend 1/2 their troops breaking your command so you'll get to keep the command.
In a 5 person game, the odds are likely to be a bit different - having 1 of the 4 people you need to kill in a strong position puts you in a relatively worse position, and you can more easily coordinate with some of the other 4 weaker players to hit the stronger player. Even without diplomacy, higher level players will work together to stop someone from holding a +5 command on Africa because the cost to them is just too high.

Another application - make sure you can kill someone if you're going to "ruin" their game. If you lower someone's chances of winning that much, I think it's perfectly rational for them to try and lower yours as much as they can. This is one of the things I see low-ranking make mistakes with most often.

Player A is in a stronger position than player B and tries to take his command, say something like 35 vs 20 troops. After 3 turns Player A is at 30 troops and player B is left with 2 in some corner of the map. Meanwhile, players C-H have a lot more troops and it's time for a chain kill. Player A might be at 55 troops and in a much better position to make the kills if he hadn't started a bloody war.

I'm not a fan of many hard and fast rules, learn the basics (again, some higher level players still don't really understand how the dice work), and then learn to think.

Anyway, micro, macro, get in your opponent's heads, win

 

[LordAdef]

1. The Wiki suggests to "pretend to be weak when strong, and strong when you are weak" (my words). But "how" do you do that?

 

[Geoffrey]

1. What are the first things to do to become a good player?
Being able to look at a game, looking at where people are located and who you can eliminate for a profit (Profit = either gaining points on Mercenary or earning enough cards to justify attacking them) is important. Also, patience.
2. How can you study MajCom from the archives? What (and how) to look in a game in order to study it.
The only reason why I look at archives are to be weird, games are usually situational and diplomatic - every game is different, and you should treat them that way 92.76% of the time.
3. Is it advisable for a Newby to stick to a specific map?
If you like certain maps, perhaps that would be a good idea to try and learn the strategies behind maps. I often try to avoid maps like NUKES because it hurts my little brain every time I play trying to figure out which ones to attack =p
4. Do you frequently study your position in between turns?
Not inbetween my turns, but having a decent look every turn is advisable - usually my strategy gets messed up when I just charge right into a game, which isn't advisable.

Not that I'm a great player to be admired, I get lucky sometimes and just know when to pounce and when to wait to keep my score above 2000-ish

 

[LordAdef]

How about my last question, how do one put this suggestion into practice?

1. The Wiki suggests to "pretend to be weak when strong, and strong when you are weak" (my words). But "how" do you do that?