Unfair and ungentleman-like play

[paul4763]

Hypothetical situation. Mr X is of a high rank on MajCom, he's in a 4-man singles game. Before he's even reached round 3, he's got half as many troops as everyone else, half as many regions and half as many reserves. He's going to lose and there's no way back. 2 of the 3 opponents are really low ranks, one is of similar rank to Mr X. What is stopping Mr X from thinking - "I've ineveitably lost this game, might as well reduce damage and put all my efforts into making the other high rank guy win, meaning I lose less points"? By, for example, just p***ing off the low rank guys by constantly attacking them even if it's clearly not in Mr X's best interests with respect to the game in question.

Interesting thought. I'd personally call it unfair and ungentleman-like play and would never condone such a thing. Anyone else thought this?

 

[Badorties]

I would say its fair but ungentleman-like. If I see a player get into that situation, i take it as the state of the battlefield and woudl do everything i can to deflect the target to the other low ranker. I fear on real battlefields, things can get ungentleman-like when players have few options.

 

[mapguy]

Yeah, well please tell me how player X got so weak in such a short period of time. Could it be that he was targeted by the low rankers ?

 

[legionbuck]

Yeah, well please tell me how player X got so weak in such a short period of time. Could it be that he was targeted by the low rankers ?

I suspect he got greedy , tried too many blitz attacks, lost, and then got chewed up by the other players.

 

[mapguy]

I suspect he got greedy , tried too many blitz attacks, lost, and then got chewed up by the other players.

Thing is, a good player would not likely do that, and since he is a high ranker, I would assume that he IS a good player. I have witnessed this more times than you know. The highest rank is targeted by the noobs. There is not much that you can really do about it. You can not relegate who a player can, and can not attack. His reasons are his own, as it should be. If a low ranker decides as a coarse of strategy, to target the best players, then that is his prerogative. Adversely, if a high ranker decides to target the lowest rank as a coarse of strategy, well that is his prerogative.

You simply can NOT start going around trying to justify or condemn a players motives or strategy. This IS a WAR game, so suck it up, or go join the Girl Scouts.

 

[ORBOTRON]

This discussion has already been taken to it's inevitably stalemated conclusion once http://www.majorcommand.com/forums/threads/2192-Point-Strategy-Discussion , but as long as it's kept civil, I reckon we can debate it a bit more.

 

[Restrepo]

All I have to say is: don't hate the player hate the game , theres nothing to do about it, people can be dicks but it's up to the game to make sure they can't be.

 

[mapguy]

All I have to say is: don't hate the player hate the game , theres nothing to do about it, people can be dicks but it's up to the game to make sure they can't be.

To you they are being "dicks" because you are only seeing this from the view of a low ranker. There is a lot more targeting of high ranks than the other way around, maybe if you get there some day, you will see just what I mean.

 

[Thunderous]

just to go off topic for a second, but in the situation paul4763 conveyed, i dont think you can inevitablely lose the game, you can be down, but definantly not out. ive been in this situation before, pulled my self back level before many times. muliplayer games have very interesting dynamics and crazy stuff can happen, so i think if you go and suiside on noobs, then your just shooting yourself in the foot

 

[warneke]

I don't see any problem with the behavior. It is a logical solution. It isn't against the rules. Welcome to the way the world works. Its a game, its not supposed to give you the warm fuzzies.

 

[mapguy]

just to go off topic for a second, but in the situation paul4763 conveyed, i dont think you can inevitablely lose the game, you can be down, but definantly not out. ive been in this situation before, pulled my self back level before many times. muliplayer games have very interesting dynamics and crazy stuff can happen, so i think if you go and suiside on noobs, then your just shooting yourself in the foot

Nobody is talking about suiciding on noobs, but it IS wise to always be aware of the lay of the land. And, just because you may find yourself in a situation where you are without any hope for victory, you still wield some amount of power in the game. That power may be enough to throw a wrench into the works of the lowest rank in the game, and this might end up saving you a shitload of points.

The Scoreboard IS the game, and the individual games that you play, are only a means to that end. Once you understand this, then you will also start to play the REAL game of Points, and learn how to conserve them.

Now with all that said, personally, I am a player that does not adhere to these kind of tactics religiously. I do many things that fly in the face of good point conservation. But I know, and appreciate what it takes to minimize point loss, and maximize point gain. I will never try to chastise a player that understands and employs these advanced strategies. To call them cowards, or ungentlemanly is just plain ignorant and immature, (IMHO).

 

[Robinette]

......What is stopping Mr X from thinking - "I've ineveitably lost this game, might as well reduce damage and put all my efforts into making the other high rank guy win, meaning I lose less points"? By, for example, just p***ing off the low rank guys by constantly attacking them even if it's clearly not in Mr X's best interests with respect to the game in question.......

If Mr X was a smart player, he would not employ a tactic normally associated with low rankers...
He would find a corner or two, lick his wounds, and hope for a chance to once again be relevant in this game...

Personally, i have been in this situation many times, and played right victory can still be obtained.


now, to the point of the op... it would be petty to throw the game towards a certain player to minimize points loss...
if you are playing for points then it would make sense, but i play for fun, and for honor. *insert sexy wink here*

 

[theycallmesquirtle]

I agree with Robinette, when this happens to me (it does about 3 out of every 4 games with 5 or more players) I find a corner and lick my wounds. If this ticks you off like it does me, I would suggest waiting till last to join a game, and only joining into games with players of similar or higher rank, thus reducing the risk of a gang bang mentality against you from the get-go. Preventative measures, my friend, preventative measures. If noobish play styles and actions cause the game to be less enjoyable, be that stuck up captain or what have you who refuses to play with non officers. A man is judged by the company he keeps. That being said, i've played this game for rank, seen the officer ranks, and it's still the same game. So i shrugged and opened myself up to more games with lower ranked players and real life friends who aren't as high ranked as me. I still have just as much fun with a single bar on my rank as I did when i had 2 bars for captain. As long as you're in it for the fun, don't do underhanded things such as attack the higher ranked player or delay your turn in one game until you have lost the other so as to gain more points. If you play with people who do this, politely inform them that they are dicks, and go have fun playing with others who play for fun and not for the game of thrones, biting and clawing their way to the top at the expense of morality and honor.

 

[paul4763]

Well to use an actual example. I was in a classic evolved game and had a god awful drop. All my regions were scattered and I don't think I had even one bordering region. I'm 4th out of 5 to take my turn. Not entirely sure, but I think you start with 30 troops? Anyway, by the time I had taken my first go I already only had 21 troops. My dice weren't great and I got no reserve. Come round 2 when it is my turn to go, I have 13 troops, 4 regions, no reserves and it's flat rate anyway so it's not like escalate could save me. And everyone had at least double my troop count. Now 3 of the 5 players were cadets and there was one other high ranking officer. Needless to say this damage limitation thought crossed my mind... and needless to say, I didn't make it past round 4 so it didn't matter anyway.

But this is basically where my train of thought came from and I know people have said that experienced players shouldn't get themselves in this sort of situation. But on maps like CE with 5 players I always find there is what I like to call a 'bitch' player. Basically the bitch has no definitive base camp or command to aim for and is generally picked off by other players for the command that they are going for. Hence in this game, I was the bitch.

Also, I generally find that this only applies to flat rate games. If it's escalite or escalate then there you do really always have a chance and should always try to survive, get the reserves and hope the dice comes good. But in flat rate I believe the drop and early dice are a very important aspect because if your opponent has managed to have double as many troops as you before the first trading round, then 6 troops isn't going to do a great deal to help.

 

[ORBOTRON]

Squirtle you need to teach me this art of politely telling someone they are a dick, would come in really handy in my position here lol.

One thing that needs pointing out is the fact that for some people, playing for points IS playing for fun. It's not a valid argument to tell people to play for "honor and fun", when according to their definition, that's exactly what they are doing. The notion of telling people what is fun is just ridiculous, it's too subjective.

 

[Robinette]

Well to use an actual example. I was in a classic evolved game and had a god awful drop. All my regions were scattered and I don't think I had even one bordering region. I'm 4th out of 5 to take my turn. Not entirely sure, but I think you start with 30 troops? Anyway, by the time I had taken my first go I already only had 21 troops. My dice weren't great and I got no reserve. Come round 2 when it is my turn to go, I have 13 troops, 4 regions, no reserves and it's flat rate anyway so it's not like escalate could save me. And everyone had at least double my troop count. Now 3 of the 5 players were cadets and there was one other high ranking officer. Needless to say this damage limitation thought crossed my mind... and needless to say, I didn't make it past round 4 so it didn't matter anyway.

But this is basically where my train of thought came from and I know people have said that experienced players shouldn't get themselves in this sort of situation. But on maps like CE with 5 players I always find there is what I like to call a 'bitch' player. Basically the bitch has no definitive base camp or command to aim for and is generally picked off by other players for the command that they are going for. Hence in this game, I was the bitch.

Also, I generally find that this only applies to flat rate games. If it's escalite or escalate then there you do really always have a chance and should always try to survive, get the reserves and hope the dice comes good. But in flat rate I believe the drop and early dice are a very important aspect because if your opponent has managed to have double as many troops as you before the first trading round, then 6 troops isn't going to do a great deal to help.

Strategy tip #37...

If you find yourself to be the bitch in a flat rate game, don't collect cards. Build in 1 location, and 1 location only. Live life loose and free with no cardly possessions that make you appetizing to others. While you build, hope for conflict and mass battles to occur elsewhere on the board. When the time is right, make a move for a command.

 

[Restrepo]

"The bitch" lol

 

[AAFitz]

Well, as suggested, its only realistic all types of ungentlemenlike play should be expected on an online worldwide game, so its only a matter of conjecture really to discuss it.

However, there are lots of options and strategies when a high ranker is getting smashed, which often is because of his/her rank. (IE. Get rid of the biggest perceived threats first...)

The High ranker can stick it to the end and fight to the last man, never conceding.
Kill the lowest ranker to shave a few points off the loss.
Absolutely demolish the one or two people most responsible, so it becomes known such targeting will not get them anywhere.
(this can make people wary of attacking you too much on future games, but can also make people think youre annoying, and incite them to attack you more on future games) In general, youre better off, playing it as the nice guy, because people typically will care far more about revenge on a game like this, than winning every single game.

All three have their own pitfalls, both in strategic use, and gentlemenly use, and realistically, all three will be used by everyone to varying degrees.

 

[mapguy]

I agree with everything Fitz said, and will add another option that Robin uses a lot.-
Make truces with all of your close neighbors, and use them as a buffer zone.

 

[paul4763]

I think I just got targeted in a merc game, but left them with only 1 troop. I picked up pieces and managed to take everyone out with the reserves. Maybe being of a higher rank does have its advantages