The Colony

[Cardinalsrule]

Badorties sent me what he has on a partially completed map, called "The Colony" I'd like to see if I/we can get this finished. I'm not really sure what to do next, but maybe Shepherd or one of the other Cartographers can give me a tutorial on how to proceed from here.

 

[Shepherd]

Happy to, Cards. I'll shoot you a message.

 

[FLAGG]

CARDINAL,

This map looks COOL!

FLAGG

 

[Shepherd]

it should be interesting, but we've got a lot of bugs to work out - and we need to figure out if we wait on it until the recode is done or push forward an imperfect version of the map that doesn't work quite as designed. Personally, I'd like us to start doing things right from the start.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I agree with that, Shep, but I'd like to start working on all the things that CAN be done, to get it closer. If it waits for the recode to be finished and published, that's not a big issue for me. I'd like the map to work as designed, with all the little details and intricate functions.

 

[dudeiamgood]

Um... How do you get from the colonies to other people's homeworlds to eliminate them? It seems like the hyperspace is one-way. Or would your homeworld revert to neutral after a few rounds? If so, can you get from a colony to a colony?

 

[Cardinalsrule]

dudeiamgood,

There are a lot of wrinkles to be worked out, I don't think any further explanations past what the wiki says will be forthcoming at this time. But, hyperspace is NOT one way. Basically I just today got access to a thread about the map; its 15 pages long, so I have a lot to read before I even start.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

OK, it seems like there aren't any issues with coding (that is, no new 'rules' that would need to be created), so this can possibly proceed. Shepherd has expressed willingness to do the tedious bit of building the PNG's for all the hexagons, but only after all the other issues are agreed upon.

What's still needed to be decided is, what would the starting # of troops be for each player in the home worlds, the hyperspace, landing zones, mines, bases.

The numbers need to be such that, in a 2 player game, it's not immediately attractive for player #2 to go after #1 right after he/she gets to a moon or the big planet, ending the game immediately. In other words, if player 1's dice aren't so good, the number of neuts to go through still has to be enough to make #2 decide that going for a neut landing zone is still more advantageous than going right after #1.

My thoughts (in agreement with others who posted) are, start with 15. hyperspace is a neut 4, planetary orbits ('drop zones') 2, landing zones 2, everything else 1. FYI, the hyperspace and orbits will reset at the end of each turn, (the way the boat on the Japan map does) NOT at the end of the round. So player 2 can't follow 1 through a weakened orbit and LZ, or go kill him in the home world immediately.

There was also a discussion going as to whether or not the home worlds should be a +3 every turn. Possibly they should be a auto-decay of -1 to encourage immediate movement and not just sitting and building up. The idea behind this map, after all, is that the home world is dying and needs to be abandoned. I'm in favor of making that change.

(You CAN get from one colony to another, drop zones (orbiters) are 2-way, so you can colonize one spot from another.)

Anyway, you're welcome to jump in here with your thoughts and ideas.....

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Bumping this, because I'd REALLY like to see some people commenting and adding their ideas here. This really cool map is very close to coming to fruition, people, jump in here!

 

[BadElmer]

I'd be glad to jump in. I've been looking at this for a while and love the concept. It's very similar to an idea I've been (slowly) working on over the years for a Colonial America map, which would have everybody starting in Europe but travelling through the Atlantic on ships that are like the hyperspaces here (except they would decay rather than revert).

My first question: I originally viewed the home planets as independent from each other, but are they intended to be able to attack the home planet next to them? or would the only way to attack a home planet be to come back through a hyperspace?

 

[BadElmer]

Also, is it that the base gets autodeploys from the harvest zones which are contiguous to that base? That seems to be what is intended but just looking for clarity.

 

[Cagey]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand this, I think I'd have to see it in action, or test play it or something before I could make any helpful comments except to say it looks cool but seems to be more for the experienced player than a noob, which is fine -

Just to clarify: At game start, round one, before anyone has played -
Your starting troops would all be deployed on one of the little green hexes at the bottom of the screen.
The hyperspace hex above it would contain 4 neurtal armies.
The planetary orbit hexes would contain 2 neutral armies
The landing zones would contain 2 neutral armies which do not reset
The base zones, harvest zones and mine zones and jungle zones all contain 1 neutral army that would not reset once taken

If that's right then you'd have to kill 4+2+2+1+1 to make your first move. It would seem pointless just landing and not taking a base because you couldn't reinforce onto the landing zone because your income is autodeployed onto your home planet. Similarly it would seem to be pointless to take a base and not take a harvest zone because without a harvest zone the base would have no income and be pointless..

Which all makes sense, very logical, great story: it should be really difficult to establish an interplanetary colony - but - I'm also looking at that 10 troops on 5 terts and thinking if you don't make it on your first turn then you're finished really because those that do will be growing while you're waiting to build up enough to have a second attempt.

Or maybe I've got it wrong, I'm easily confused. I'd like to playtest it.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I think the terminology being used needs to be completely understood. the Hyperspace is the place where you come out from your home world, and then to the planetary orbit, from which you can go to the landing zones on the various planets/moons.

So, yes, by going from a landing zone back to the orbit you can then go to the orbit of another moon/planet.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

Also, is it that the base gets autodeploys from the harvest zones which are contiguous to that base? That seems to be what is intended but just looking for clarity.

That is correct.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand this, I think I'd have to see it in action, or test play it or something before I could make any helpful comments except to say it looks cool but seems to be more for the experienced player than a noob, which is fine -

Just to clarify: At game start, round one, before anyone has played -
Your starting troops would all be deployed on one of the little green hexes at the bottom of the screen.
The hyperspace hex above it would contain 4 neurtal armies.
The planetary orbit hexes would contain 2 neutral armies
The landing zones would contain 2 neutral armies which do not reset
The base zones, harvest zones and mine zones and jungle zones all contain 1 neutral army that would not reset once taken

If that's right then you'd have to kill 4+2+2+1+1 to make your first move. It would seem pointless just landing and not taking a base because you couldn't reinforce onto the landing zone because your income is autodeployed onto your home planet. Similarly it would seem to be pointless to take a base and not take a harvest zone because without a harvest zone the base would have no income and be pointless..

Which all makes sense, very logical, great story: it should be really difficult to establish an interplanetary colony - but - I'm also looking at that 10 troops on 5 terts and thinking if you don't make it on your first turn then you're finished really because those that do will be growing while you're waiting to build up enough to have a second attempt.

Or maybe I've got it wrong, I'm easily confused. I'd like to playtest it.

You have it right. What I want to see different than what the brief is, NOT have an auto-deploy on home world, that is counter to the story line. You'd get whatever your regular deploy is (3 +) to deploy wherever you want.

So, how many do we need to start with? I'm thinking 15, plus your regular 3 deploy would give you 18 to leave the home world with. Unless you get disastrous dice, should be enough to get to a base at least.

 

[th-child]

I like the idea, go on, cards!

I have never been involved in designing a map before, so I don't know if I can make valuable input, but:

- I see this is a map for only 12 players. Is there a reason not to make it available for 24?

- I thought the 3 deploy on the homeworld is an extra above the normal deploy. I guess that's incorrect then, right?

- If the planetary orbits reset, then having two orbits around the main planet makes no difference and are only there for the look, right?

- Also, dicerape bothers me. Starting with 15+3 means you have about 7-8 percent chance NOT to make to a base. It's not much, but in bigger games it is ought to happen to someone, and while this unlucky player probably loses the game on his very first move, the game itself can continue for a long time without eliminating him. This is not true for any other maps/settings, I guess, is it?
I'm not sure this a problem though, maybe we should just toughen up and accept it, as bad experiences build character, I don't know.

- On the other hand, 15+3 troops are quite a lot. In certain games (duels, mercenaries, but especially assassins) it would make sense just to attack someone with your first move. Hence, a 12-player assassin (or any assassin for that matter) would probably end in the first turn. Again, I don't know if this a problem.

But I do love the idea, if you need test players, pls let me know.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

The map was designed for 12, but I guess there's really no reason why it couldn't be altered for 24. No reason to do it, either. 12Domains is only for a max of 12 players and doesn't suffer for that. One of the more popular maps.....

Two orbits on the main planet - it has been discussed that each could reach certain landing zones, but not all. This is a point to be finalized.

Your final point, attacking your target immediately, has been discussed. It could be an issue, but really the odds of success in taking out your target on first turn are pretty low, unless your target goes before you and has really bad dice. With reasonable dice, odds would be much less than 50/50 to take them out, and would leave the attacker very vulnerable to being taken out himself. Overall, people will try it once, and realize that it's a much smarter move to get to a LZ yourself first, and go from there.

Your point on dicerape: my idea was to have the homeworld an auto-decay, which would prevent what you describe from happening (if you didn't make a base you'd be eliminated pretty fast) and also prevent people from just sitting and building up before moving through hyperspace.

Test play will come after Shep does all the tedious work of making the little hex's connect, etc. He's basically waiting for all the rules, etc, to be finalized, and to find time to do it... I'd be willing to do some work, but don't know how.

 

[Raken]

If you need more testers I would be happy to put my hand up. Looks like it would be rather interesting

Edit: Obviously when it eventually gets made that is.

 

[th-child]

Your final point, attacking your target immediately, has been discussed.

Ok, great then.
I have nothing else to add, and distributing the main planet's landing zones between the two orbits also sounds great, so if no other problems/suggestions arise, I'm looking forward to test playing.

 

[empirejeff]

So if your team mate fails to make the long trip you would have to deploy a troop on them to keep them from being eliminated?