Petal Pandemonium

[Colon-el-Mustardo]

I was thinking about a chinese checker-like map but smaller....this smaller version has color appeal and can require a good deal of strategy. Very symetrical design is what I had in mind. I want it simple to understand so even newbies can get on it and not feel intimidated.

The objective is simple, you can either eliminate your opponents or hold 2 color petals for a round. I'm imagining 2-5 players would result in the best gameplay. More players would work also, just be a bit tighter, maybe it would be more exciting to some? :ridinghorse:

There will be 5 base-like bunkers (bunkers as we have seen in the Nuke map) that will start of as neutrals with the value of 3 like the rest of the neutrals on the map. Hold one of these for a round and get +2 each time. The center however will be a neutral value of 5, since it should be a desired point to hold to get to the other petals much faster. There will be no auto bonus for the center territory.

There are 10 possible territories in each petal X5 =50.....5 Bases and 1 center....total of 56 territories for the whole map.

The first image is the map in its bare form.
I drew out the lines of attack on the 2nd image



Get back to me!
:evil:
-The Colon

 

[Colon-el-Mustardo]

Please do note that the inner tips of the petals cannot attack each other. This will make the center territory a great deal to hold or not to let others get it.

 

[Rimbaud]

wow! really liked the concept, hope you con convince the chiefs to work on it!

 

[Shepherd]

funny thing is, the first map I ever made for a gaming site was a chinese checkers map. (see below)

Sadly, it did not prove very popular. In part I think this is because folks don't like an entirely symmetrical map - symmetry limits gameplay styles and strategy, and limited strategy means the game is almost based entirely on luck.

The other thing I learned after making my chinese checkers map is that people want to play a map that takes you somewhere, or tells a story. Nukes, for instance, puts you in a particular time and place and gives the player a role in history.

This map layout might be far more appealing if it had a location and theme - what if instead of a flower with five petals it was a space station with five arms? then you could build a story - start on a ship, capture a docking arm, hold the command center to win. It instantly transports the player into a new frame of mind and gets them excited about the map.

OK, here is my old map... keep in mind that prior to working on this I hadn't used Photoshop in ten years, and last version I'd worked before the introduction of layers.

Quick poll: which would you rather play, the space station or the chinese checkers board?

 

[KungFuDuet]

Quick poll: which would you rather play, the space station or the chinese checkers board?

Oh oh- pick me... Wow this is a difficult question... jks - obviously the space station.

Anyone needs a story writer? I am on stand by.

KFD

 

[Rimbaud]

maybe im odd, but i would prefer the flower, seems more like classic, mental}
Anyway a theme or another its a kind of map that majcom should have in its lines,its kinda different.

 

[Badorties]

Well I would be open to a map that was more "plain" as in flower vs space station as long as I knew the gameplay was rock solid and the fun an excitement of the map was going to be strategic play. THen it wouldn't need a theme lift to it. Does this flower have this strategic and versatile gameplay? Im not sure.

That being said, I wouldn't mind a space station map either, though I think if we can surface great gameplay, which is very hard to do, then keeping it simple, yet beautiful would be an excellent route.

 

[Chilly]

I'm piss poor at anything that involves photoshop.

But, one thing I could offer if we were trying to take a cool concept and develop it is just change it topologically so everything is connected the same it just looks different. You know morph the doughnut into a coffee mug?



Speaking of which....coffee....doughnuts....Mmmmmm.....

 

[KungFuDuet]

Suddenly, looking at this had made me think of this:

It seems like the 5 elements of China.

Fire, Water, Wood, Earth and Metal.

It is said that with these five elements would the universe sustain itself. That balance is controlled through the interaction of these elements (see image):

let's say that the story is that you are one of these elements, and you are trying to disrupt the balance and dominate.

IF you make the generating and overcoming paths the attacking motion, it would be interesting to see how people actually try and start, as they have two paths to choose from.

Just a little bit of thinking anyway,
KFD

 

[Shepherd]

Interesting, Kung Fu... this is what I'm talking about, give the map a hook. Suddenly the map has something that an artist could work with.

 

[Colon-el-Mustardo]

I see your idea kungfuduet... BUT, I wanted it simple so that new players can get it....unlike nukes....new players only seem to accept the regular world map into their comfort zone. Why cant we do the symetrical flower map and also create another chinese voodoo element thingy after?


We need to get more maps up...there is no variety at the moment...I see what 6? 1 is advanced , 1 easy, and 4 somewhat intermediate?

 

[Cardinalsrule]

There's actually 10 maps, but I agree with your point, Colon. More maps would be an improvement.

I know that there are several in progress, but as to when they are released, only the powers that be have that answer.

I kind of like the Chinese checkers/Petal design, but a more 'advanced' map based on the space station would be cool as another advanced map.
To quote one of the ending lines from the classic 'Trading Places', "can't we have both?"

 

[Shepherd]

While we certainly want to have more than ten maps, we want to make sure that every map we produce here at this site is a damned good one, and that it's going to be played. In setting such a goal we probably aren't ever going to have as many maps as some of our competitors, which is fine by us so long as we have the best maps.

While throwing something playable together can be done in a few hours, creating a really good map requires a great deal of time and effort. Getting the gameplay right takes weeks of smart people putting their heads together to identify concerns, and then play testing. Coming up with the graphics takes even longer since our standards are pretty high around here, and artist-time is finite. So yes, we could have a Flower Petals Map, and a Space Station Map, and a Chinese Voodoo map, but the reality is that we probably won't - at least not for a very, very long time.

As a mapmaker with limited time, I personally like to work on projects that present interesting or unique game play, are artistically and thematically challenge/exciting, and which attract a a wide audience. Right now this map is doing none of those things. That's not to say that it couldn't, but it will require some thoughtful discussion and a willingness to think outside the box.

Why cant we do the symetrical flower map and also create another chinese voodoo element thingy after?

My idea wasn't to turn this into a more difficult map, but simply that the Chinese spiritualism could provide a theme for this map. I was just trying to inject some excitement into it. You could take gameplay such as you've presented here and use it in a million different themes that would be more eye catching and attractive to players than flower petals, since flowers and world domination generally don't mix.

 

[Cardinalsrule]

And you're all doing a damn fine job, Shep. I hope my comments weren't taken as criticism, they weren't meant that way. I know from spending some time on dev how much it takes to put out a map. I only meant that the more maps the site has, the better.

Now that I've taken a look at landgrab (from playing over there to prep for the tourney) I certainly like the slow, steady approach to making great maps that you're taking here. They have some great maps, some mediocre ones. You certainly don't want to follow down that path and publish less-than-excellent maps.

btw, do you have a guess as to release dates on any of the other maps, such as the Africa map? Not trying to pin you down, just a ballpark?

 

[Shepherd]

No offense taken, Cards. As you noted, there are some maps in the can, awaiting site upgrades or rule fixes. No timetable, sadly, though I hope to have one out in the next couple of weeks.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic at hand: this map. My specific concerns were (1) that perfectly symmetrical maps lead to predictable games and potential stalemates, as player go after a section and hole up there (having five "petals" is actually a nice step toward eliminating the stalemate problem, but it still seems a bit dull); and (2) that the style of play presented here might be more appealing to players if a more exciting setting could be developed.

 

[WidowMakers]

How about it Shep. Chinese Checkers?
I think smaller symmetrical maps can work. 8 Thoughts played a bit better that Chinese Checkers. But it still had its flaws too.

 

[Colon-el-Mustardo]

Well if you want to make this map into your idea then go for it. I came up with a simple map idea that I would love to play a lot. I didn't think this up to have a "cool" or "war" look to it. I'd rather have fun factor and play ability than complicated and cosmetic surgery. You think it will cause a stalemate without playing it? Try playing it to see how it plays makes more sense to be able to judge it. If its a fail, you simply delete the map. I do not believe you can make a map and know if it will be awesome without it being played. Oh well, I have no power apparently. I guess I'll just have to wait until someone else makes a map I can enjoy.

 

[Shepherd]

Hey Colon, I think you're misunderstanding the point of my posts. I'm not suggesting that a map like this should not or will not ever be made, I'm just trying to kick start some discussion on it. If you've read through the MajCom Mapmaking Guidelines you will see that making a map is meant to be a process that involves community input. All of the maps currently on this site went through many weeks of back and forth before we settled upon the currently gameplay, then many more weeks were spent on the graphics.

A MajCom map should play well, look great, and attract a wide audience. We can set the graphics piece of it aside for now and focus on the game play and the potential popularity, both of which will require some discussion to establish. You suggest we should try playing it as it is, but even setting up your original image for play will require hours of work. Right now we don't even know what the bonus would be for holding a petal (or if there even is a bonus?), so let's not jump the gun.

This process is new, both to us and to the users, so we understand that there are going to be some growing pains as we work it out and as our users get comfortable with it.

 

[VictorSullivan]

WidowMakers makes a valid point. Sure, Chinese Checkers was symmetrical, but the reason for its unpopularity was more the bland gameplay. 8 Thoughts is most definitely superior in gameplay - Mind/Reason, the symbol groups, shared regions, more feasibly attainable bonuses - not to mention, as you said, it had a more solid theme. I think if you add a little flavor to the 5-petals concept in gameplay and theme, I think it could be a solid map.

As it stands, however, your gameplay structure is not conducive to a well-balanced game. The bases are overpowered, the center region serves no other purpose than to connect the petals at the center, and with a neutral 5, no one is likely to bother, unless they're desperate or in an Escalate game. That essentially leaves the petals to be easily guarded with just 2-3 territories to cover its borders. But then again, with no bonus for the petals and a weak objective, I'm not so sure anyone would bother. The objective is pointless, because if you had the troops to take two petals, you probably have the troops to eliminate players. Anywho, I don't mean to tear apart your gameplay structure, more I want to show you why it doesn't work, and why I think my proposal would be more in the right direction:

NOTE: Below is the "Petal Pandamonium" image with added region names, so it's easier for me to refer to specific territories and easier for everyone to understand me Anywho, so let's start with the bare bones - scrap all bonuses and neutrals. Okay, now that we have a clean slate, let's begin. First, I think connections between adjacent "K" regions need to be made (i.e. RK connects to CK, CK to YK, YK to GK, BK to BK, and BK to RK). Second, let K (the center region) be able to one-way attack R1, C1, Y1, G1, and B1, and it can probably stay a neutral 5 (killer neutral could be a possibility here, but I'm not sure if it would limit its use too much). As for the "bases", I thought of a number of things these could be/do: bases could one-way attack its adjacent petals' "1" regions (i.e. CY could attack C1 and Y1), "1" regions could one-way attack adjacent bases (i.e. C1 could attack RC and CY), or "1" regions could one-way attack any base (i.e. C1 could attack RC, CY, YG, GB, and BR). The second two would likely be preferred, given the functionality of K, though K's function could be changed so that it attacks bases, therefore making the first option more than valid. As far as bonuses go, I'm thinking +5 per petal, with additional +1 or +2 for holding a petal's adjacent bases, then perhaps a bonus of +3 for holding RK, CK, YK, GK, and BK. If you want to keep an objective, you could have it be that one has to hold all of the "K" regions, or that one has to hold all of the "1" regions. As you can see, there are a number of possibilities here.

-Sully

 

[Colon-el-Mustardo]

now you're talkin' Sullmeister!