BUG: Was not allowed to cash all possible reinforcemtns

[Robinette]

But it makes for poor and reckless strategy in large esc games.

Pleeeease keep the CC rules.

nooooooooooo....

i think the benefits outweigh your concern...
it will allow a cash after a take out designed to keep the game going...

Let me explain...

If i am moderately weak, but have a 3 card set, while all the other players have 4 cards, the last of which is very vulnerable, and I can see that the game will end before my next turn, what can I do? The game is sure to end... but if i can take out the most vulnerable player, with a 67% chance of cashing for reinforcement instead of ending with 5 cards, then I have actually improved the odds of keeping the game alive for another round of cashes... There are many other scenarios that would play out favorably for extending the life of the game...

So what are the scenarios that would make the game more reckless? I can think of a few, but again... I still say the benefits outweigh the drawbacks..

And Shepard makes an AMAZING point about the perception of this... most would see it as an ADDED feature, an ADDED benefit! And imagine what fun it will be to explain it, citing the history all the way back to La Conquête du Monde :listen:

 

[Cassidy]

But did you not just outline a scenario that is more luck-based? If I and all but on of my opponents have four cards, and one scrub who missed a round has three, he should be able to get more lucky than me in getting a 3-carder and take me out? I like esc singles because I find them to be less luck-based than other settings, i.e. based more on positioning and strategy than most settings.

I suppose I meant reckless more as supporting the player who doesn't necessarily deserve the win—the one who plays more recklessly but gets lucky and can capitalize on his lucky positioning with a 3carder.

 

[Badorties]

There is lots of good discussion going on here.

Here are my thoughts.

What players may be used to (if we are referring to Conk) is some myopic thinking. The vast majority, and I am guessing about 90-95% of our users will not be coming from Conk and will not be familiar with their card mechanics. Most users will be new to online Risk, and familiar with only what they have played before, the board game. Another large chunk of users will not be familiar with Risk at all but are interesting in online strategic games. Our default settings should really not be influenced by what goes on at Conk.

I think the best immediate solution would be to stick with our current system, which represents a middle road. You can cash if you have 5 or more. If you have 8 or 9 reserves, this would be allow a double cash. Does this make all out game ending sweeps less likely? Yes, to a degree. Does this make the games less strategic? No, not at all. If anything, you would have to make contingency plans should you end up in a situation where you were able to take out 2 players and leave another 2 players waiting to cash. Furthermore, being that most noobs will be used to default rules so to put them into a setting called 'escalating' and then present them with rule tweaks they are unaware of, and unprepared for, would not be fair.

However, I do realize the coolness and exhilaration of sweeping the entire map in one turn. one of my most memorable games was a Tameriel game where I was down to one single troop. I was lucky enough to have a set and ended the game a turn later. So I think we should develop an additional reserve setting that takes advantage of this. Perhaps robinettes anytime setting is different enough to hold it's own. We would have to discuss it further, and possibly make further tweeks to allow for a more 'wild' card setting.

 

[Robinette]

Thought it would be interesting to post the official rule on this with regards to the RISK Classic Tournament:

RISK Card Trade-In Rules

1. Card trade in value are normal (4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30, etc).
2. Players cannot begin their turn with more than 5 cards in their possession.
3. During game play if you defeat an opponent by taking all of that opponent’s territories, and you have received his/her RISK cards, at that juncture you must trade-in until you have reached the point of having 4 or less RISK cards in your possession. If your total of RISK cards is 4 or less after defeating an opponent from game play you are not required to trade-in unless you desire to and have met the appropriate trade-in requirements. Please note this is a classic variation from the current rule set, where if an opponent is defeated, you must have a minimum of 5 cards to trade in right away.
4. Any of the following combinations can be defined as a valid trade-in:
* 3 Foot Soldiers
* 3 Horsemen
* 3 Cannons
* 1 Foot Soldier, 1 Horseman, and 1 Cannon
* A wild card with any two cards, including another wild card.

Saaaaayyyy.... why don't WE have a couple WILD cards ?

 

[yeti]

Yeah - Wild cards would be ace... it would have to be a "per Map" setting - i.e. mini would have 1 normal 2 massive 3/4.

C>

 

[WidowMakers]

Thought it would be interesting to post the official rule on this with regards to the RISK Classic Tournament:

RISK Card Trade-In Rules

1. Card trade in value are normal (4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30, etc).
2. Players cannot begin their turn with more than 5 cards in their possession.
3. During game play if you defeat an opponent by taking all of that opponent’s territories, and you have received his/her RISK cards, at that juncture you must trade-in until you have reached the point of having 4 or less RISK cards in your possession. If your total of RISK cards is 4 or less after defeating an opponent from game play you are not required to trade-in unless you desire to and have met the appropriate trade-in requirements. Please note this is a classic variation from the current rule set, where if an opponent is defeated, you must have a minimum of 5 cards to trade in right away.
4. Any of the following combinations can be defined as a valid trade-in:
* 3 Foot Soldiers
* 3 Horsemen
* 3 Cannons
* 1 Foot Soldier, 1 Horseman, and 1 Cannon
* A wild card with any two cards, including another wild card.

Saaaaayyyy.... why don't WE have a couple WILD cards ?

I would prefer going with as described above for how all our reserves can be played.
After a kill, play as many sets as you can until you can't/want to stop

The reserve options are for how the numbers progress as more sets are turned in NOT as to how they turn in. This option described above applies to all types of settings, Flat, fixed, esca-lite, escalate, Fibonacci ,etc.

If we were going to have an option to allow cash and kill or standard, then there would be the option to have esca-lite cash and kill or standard and two for fixed, etc
TOO MANY OPTIONS.

And we need wilds. 1/12th of the number of regions = number of Wilkds

Mini = 1/12th of 24 = 2
British Isles = 1/12th of 50 = 4
Massive = 1/12th of 127 = 11
etc

 

[Shepherd]

I'm in favor of wild cards. It's an added bit of luck, yes, but could tempered by not printing a region on the map. Earlier turn in good; no +2 bonus bad.

And WM, the method you quote is not the same as the method you describe. You want to turn in as many sets as possible, while the rules quoted above allow you to turn in until you are down to four (or fewer). Once you have four (or three) cards in your hand you can't turn in another set.

 

[WidowMakers]

I'm in favor of wild cards. It's an added bit of luck, yes, but could tempered by not printing a region on the map. Earlier turn in good; no +2 bonus bad.

And WM, the method you quote is not the same as the method you describe. You want to turn in as many sets as possible, while the rules quoted above allow you to turn in until you are down to four (or fewer). Once you have four (or three) cards in your hand you can't turn in another set.

Yes it does. At least that is how I read it.

if your total of RISK cards is 4 or less after defeating an opponent from game play you are not required to trade-in unless you desire to and have met the appropriate trade-in requirements.

 

[Robinette]

OH - MY - GAWD

I was just blindsided by this "Condition" in a game where i was counting on a double cash after a kill with 7 cards...

I must say, It just felt WRONG to be denied the ability to cash that 2nd set,
and it could have quite possibly been the end of me since I am now sitting on 5 cards...

I will go on record and say that a KILL should be the key that UNLOCKS the cards, and allows for any and all cashes...
Even a kill that results in less than 5 cards...

But to keep everybody happy, these should likely be Game selections as previously discussed.


This is likely to surface in another game real soon, so has there been a decision on this?

 

[WidowMakers]

OH - MY - GAWD

I was just blindsided by this "Condition" in a game where i was counting on a double cash after a kill with 7 cards...

I must say, It just felt WRONG to be denied the ability to cash that 2nd set,
and it could have quite possibly been the end of me since I am now sitting on 5 cards...

I will go on record and say that a KILL should be the key that UNLOCKS the cards, and allows for any and all cashes...
Even a kill that results in less than 5 cards...

But to keep everybody happy, these should likely be Game selections as previously discussed.


This is likely to surface in another game real soon, so has there been a decision on this?

I agree but the game did go longer and there was a small chance that I could have won.