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[map] Nukes! Strategies and bugs

Shepherd

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is there a way to ern medles on this map like the others ??
Yes... the medals have already been created, though I believe they haven't been made active yet by the site admin. Same with the 12 Domains medals. I suspect this will be sorted out in a week or two.
 

KungFuDuet

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is there a way to ern medles on this map like the others ??

Indeed... the same way as any other.

You guys should seriously read the wiki.

And Shep beats me to it on explaining the details...
 
Last edited:

CHICO

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ok and when it is active will the wins we already have work toworsd points for the medels or do we start from 0 ?
 

Shepherd

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ok and when it is active will the wins we already have work toworsd points for the medels or do we start from 0 ?
The server is already logging your victories so you'll get credit for whatever you do. It's just that the medals aren't 'turned on' yet.
 

WidowMakers

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Does anyone else think that bombards get a better attacker advantage than regular attacking?
It always seems that the spies can kill a large number of troops and not lose many at all.
Mark also agreed in our game.

We need to find out how teh dice are rolled and work for both bombard and for regular attack.
I think they should be the same but they just don't seem that way.

Anyone else notice this besides mark and I?
 

WidowMakers

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Plus now that I am in a Dead Stalemate I understand what everyoen was talking about.
Mark and I are equal troops, reserves and bonuses. We are both able to kill and prevent NUKES
If we just both build we will never end so....I hope he falls asleep for 3 days. :)
 

Shepherd

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I would be surprised if the bombard dice are different than the standard attack dice. I think it's a matter of perception.

The attacker/bombarder always has a slight the advantage based on the attack odds. Usually you don't notice it since in a regular game with smaller troop counts you see luck work with you or against you; i'f I'm attacking a 6 with a 9 I should win, but one or two bad rolls and I'm hosed. On Nukes if I'm attacking a 60 with a 90, I should win and it would take 20 bad rolls to set me back. The dice are more predictable in larger sets.

Having also played Mark in a game that was headed toward a stalemate, I made some choices to keep it from happening. I gave up tow reserves early to put myself in a position to be able to turn in set at three before he could, then I kept putting troops on my targets to force him to attack and keep our troop counts from escalating - if we only have 100 troops total between us, that extra set of 60 is a game winner. And I absolutely had him in the end before I made a bone-head move and went straight to reinforcements without attacking.

While I'm not convinced that a stalemates is completely unavoidable in this game, if there's something we can do to make the end-game more obvious I won't fight it.
 

WidowMakers

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I see what you are saying.
The issue with NUKES is that it is all military and ZERO politics.
Were as the real arms race was a bit of both.
I mean here we have no issues with NUKING half the globe which makes it fun but not realistic.

I am just trying to think what tools we have now that might work but none of them come to mind.

But I still think bombarding is suspect.
When over and over I go up against 6 or 7 and my spy loses 1 or ZERO it seems fishy.
But as you said probably just my head playing tricks.
 

Shepherd

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there's an automatic advantage to bombarding in that you never have a waste a troop advancing, but that's just a troop. And for the record, I lost a game because I got a long series of bad dice in what started out as an even spy v. target, so I've seen the bad with the good.

As for the political side of an arms race, I'm not sure that's going to fit into a game where there are no disadvantages to winning. If you want more realistic we could have have some kind of decay as a result of radiation or materials degradation; maybe the warheads in the rockets take a -1 every turn? Cities near operating nuclear facilities could lose troops? But none of this fixes the problem that's lead to stalemates - it in fact makes the problem worse.

If I pile 80 troops on President and 80 on Target, I've had to throw 160 troops into my defense; my enemy can destroy my nuclear capabilities with half that. We need to come up with something that evens the playing field between nuclear aggressor and defensive player. Some thoughts, both previously mentioned and new:

• Set it up so each spy can only hit one of the two targets. KGB hits president, GRU hits target. It forces the defensive player to keep troops in both places, just as the nuclear player has to. And it's a cold war-style shell game of trying to get the balance right, and one that i think favors the nuclear player. If I know my opponent only has 20 troops on GRU but 100 on KGB, I can load up my Pres and keep my target low.

• Auto-decay (or killer neutral) the Spies. If you're constantly sending spies out into the world to whack your opponent's president, you can't expect those spies to come back. They're casualties of war. If the spies are killer neutrals the defensive player has to expend a reinforcement to get the remaining spies out before they're killed... but you could just move them back one space and retake the spy next turn with the same force. If they auto-decay ten troops you're even more hosed, and a big auto-decay mitigates the attacker's advantage.

• Once we get Fog going, I'm not sure it should illuminate ALL of the opposing locations. I think either the president/premier or target (maybe both) should still be in the dark, since the idea is to remove the Spy's advantage.
 

mark

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Having also played Mark in a game that was headed toward a stalemate, I made some choices to keep it from happening. I gave up tow reserves early to put myself in a position to be able to turn in set at three before he could, then I kept putting troops on my targets to force him to attack and keep our troop counts from escalating - if we only have 100 troops total between us, that extra set of 60 is a game winner. And I absolutely had him in the end before I made a bone-head move and went straight to reinforcements without attacking.

I submit that I saw the tactic but really had no response but to build up and hope for good dice rolls. I was fully expecting to lose that game 4 rounds out...but, like in all games, sometimes people make mistakes. Yet another thing to learn about nuclear war from this map. I think MC has a pro-peace bias. ;-P

BTW, Widowmakers, I don't plan on getting ill and/or losing internet access anytime soon. ;-) Hell, I was sick as a dog over NY's and still played my turns. Of course, if the email system goes down again....I'll know who to blame. :p
 

CHICO

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still the medles are not working !!!! when will they be active for the 2 new maps ??
 

Incandenza

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The medals for Nukes and 12 Domains should be active very shortly.
 

grons

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balancing

don't know if i'm the only one who thinks this but i think the bunkers on the map are too easy to get, mabye setting the neutral from the start from 2 to 3 would make them more balanced.. anyone agree?
 

WidowMakers

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We are not looking into tweaking the bunkers but we will have some fixes to help eliminate build games
 

Cardinalsrule

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I have been involved in quite a few games on this map, including one that would still be going on if we hadn't made a gentlemans agreement to play another, and the loser would let the winner win the first game. As far as I know, the only true "stalemated" game to date on this map. I'm not in favor of any changes being made, except PERHAPS allowing attacks across the maps on the spys. (One stalemate out of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of games is no reason to make changes.) I think this is a fabulous map and the makers did an awesome job.

I've been playing on LandGrab (free class, 4 game limit) in preparation for the upcoming tourney, I'm hoping to be lucky enough to be chosen as one of the players to represent MC. I've gone through their maps pretty thoroughly (and they have a LOT of maps), and while they do have some good maps, they also have a lot of mediocre to poor ones. I couldn't say that about a single one of MajCom's maps; every one is in the good to great category in my book. While I wish there were more maps here, I'd rather wait longer for a great map than have our cartographers put out a less-than-excellent product. Thankfully, they have that philosophy. Nukes! is definitely in the 'Great' category, doesn't need any changes.....IMO
 

WidowMakers

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Thanks cards.

We are not drastically changing the map.
But there are 2 things we are doing to make the play actually MORE strategic than it is today.
First we will be only allowing 1 of the spies to bombard the president and scientist.
The otehr spy now can bombard the target and the Satellite.

These changes make it more strategic in how a player will deploy and bombard to break up an opposing players hold.
Also once FOW is implemented, the ability to bombard the satellite will be very important to be able to knock out the opponents view of your map.
This change was done to achieve the original intent of the map satellite that we missed early on.
Games can still build but it is a MUCH more strategic setup for both sides.
 

mark

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Thanks cards.

We are not drastically changing the map.
But there are 2 things we are doing to make the play actually MORE strategic than it is today.
First we will be only allowing 1 of the spies to bombard the president and scientist.
The otehr spy now can bombard the target and the Satellite.

These changes make it more strategic in how a player will deploy and bombard to break up an opposing players hold.
Also once FOW is implemented, the ability to bombard the satellite will be very important to be able to knock out the opponents view of your map.
This change was done to achieve the original intent of the map satellite that we missed early on.
Games can still build but it is a MUCH more strategic setup for both sides.

I really like the splitting of the spies. I played several games where the other player would build up on both equally...I won all of those by building up on one and only holding the other for the bonus. I think splitting their attack capabilities will force people to expand across the map more quickly and not just leave a whole section of it to mop up for an army or two later.

FOW is something else. Maybe it has been explained here in more detail but that seems to change the entire game. Not being able to see what the other player is doing adds a HUGE element of luck to the map. Perhaps I just don't understand how this will function....
 

WidowMakers

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FOW (fog of War) will make it so that any region you cannot directly attack or bombard will be invisible to you (you can see enemy troops)
The satellites in the map override that function. Currently there is no way to break that ability because you cannot attack the sat from the otehr country. The adjustment will enable a player to "offline" the sat by way of sabotage.

The cool thing about FOW on this map (if the sats are not occupied) is that the spies will only be able to see the Prez/Premire, target and research centers. The regions bordering them will be invisible. So you dont know where the enemy is building to make a play for capture.
So now brign in sats, they see all and that is why you would want to bombard you opponents sat every turn.
 

mark

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FOW (fog of War) will make it so that any region you cannot directly attack or bombard will be invisible to you (you can see enemy troops)
The satellites in the map override that function. Currently there is no way to break that ability because you cannot attack the sat from the otehr country. The adjustment will enable a player to "offline" the sat by way of sabotage.

The cool thing about FOW on this map (if the sats are not occupied) is that the spies will only be able to see the Prez/Premire, target and research centers. The regions bordering them will be invisible. So you dont know where the enemy is building to make a play for capture.
So now brign in sats, they see all and that is why you would want to bombard you opponents sat every turn.

So in 1v1 games there would be whole sections of the maps that I can't see...because I don't border that particular region. In team games I assume we'll also be able to see the border regions of our teammates. The whole thing makes me think of minesweeper...but I withhold judgement until I see it.

Thanks for the explanation.
 
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