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Diplomacy ruins the game

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justoneman

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I wish there was no diplomacy. It ruins the game.
 

periwinkle

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Really? :hmmmm2: If it is used correctly....it can be a good thing for both parties. Yes, eventually the allies/friendship will come to an end...since it's the nature of the game, but you totally get further with good diplos. I totally rely on it with fixed force and certain flat rate games.

Newsheriff...i really hope the diplo tab will be in the html5 site.
 

riskyone

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I wish there was no diplomacy. It ruins the game.

You should check out the clan EOD ..Enemies Of Diplomacy. They set up great games each month. You are not alone in this regard. You could even start a game and put in the notes NO diplo's. I understand your feelings, but I'm like peri. I have learned to use them properly and never break them. In a 6 player game. If you and another player are both completing a command, but need to finish them. A diplo there is beneficial to both. Why not got a leg up on the other 4 players. The best diplo's are the ones that help both parties. Believe me I used to try and break other players commands and never won. All I was usually doing was just busting the one player next to me, rather then use it to my advantage. Just No diplo's in 3 player games.:captain: Be the Captain of your vessel and travel with class and pride, and you will start kicking A$$
 

riskyone

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Really? :hmmmm2: If it is used correctly....it can be a good thing for both parties. Yes, eventually the allies/friendship will come to an end...since it's the nature of the game, but you totally get further with good diplos. I totally rely on it with fixed force and certain flat rate games.

Newsheriff...i really hope the diplo tab will be in the html5 site.

peri, that icon looks like me searching for a hair.
 

periwinkle

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justoneman

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You should check out the clan EOD ..Enemies Of Diplomacy. They set up great games each month. You are not alone in this regard. You could even start a game and put in the notes NO diplo's. I understand your feelings, but I'm like peri. I have learned to use them properly and never break them. In a 6 player game. If you and another player are both completing a command, but need to finish them. A diplo there is beneficial to both. Why not got a leg up on the other 4 players. The best diplo's are the ones that help both parties. Believe me I used to try and break other players commands and never won. All I was usually doing was just busting the one player next to me, rather then use it to my advantage. Just No diplo's in 3 player games.:captain: Be the Captain of your vessel and travel with class and pride, and you will start kicking A$$
Well sure you figured out you had to engage in the diplomacy to have a better chance to win. Really so what? Would it not be better if it did not exist at all?
 

Hortik

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As Risky and Peri mentionned, in some point of views it is necessary, in others, it is not.

You can always start a game with No diplo's and players usually respect that when it is written in the notes
 

d-flat

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I also like having diplomacy options - they can work well, and as mentioned, particularly when you hold, or are trying for adjacent commands with another player.

The trick is to make yourself look scary before you ask for it, so they jump at the chance! Often you can just move a stack onto the bordering region and the diplo request turns up!

I do also enjoy the EOD games though, where diplos are banned, so I would agree that you should give that a go!
 

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Yes....EOD is a great clan! Luis does a great job running it. There are always a few games running each month. Just go to the clan page (link below) and send a note to the admin saying you would love to join and Luis will send you an invite..then voila! You can start enjoying some no diplo games! :lollypop:

https://www.majorcommand.com/clans/45/
 

clarkenfeld

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agreed - justoneman, message luiscasanova
 

luiscasanova

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Thank you all for your kind words about our clan.

BTW we are 2 years old now! Damn it. I miss the anniversary again.

Hugs.
 

Virtuoso

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I'm not a fan of diplos but they are what they are. The few I've been in, at least half I'd say got in the way of my play, so my preference is to generally agree not to attack across borders. Risky (among others) can attest to these types of arrangements I've been in.

What I wonder about is why are diplos allowed to be broken? What if the site stopped players from breaking diplos? I'd prefer that because it's annoying when a player breaks a diplo to win a game. To me, it's not fair. It means earlier in the game they made a fatal error (agreeing to a diplo they shouldn't have) and then "cheated" to win. A promise is a promise, and if you agree not to attack (and benefit by not being attacked) it means you don't and shouldn't be allowed to.
 

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yes...but that's not how real life works. Diplos are broken all the time. I like playing risk because it is very much a psychological game too. When being attacked...some people take offense and some play it cool. That back and forth negotiation brings an interesting element to the game. Understanding the behaviour of other players and playing so that you get other players to do what you want them to do is the key to getting more wins. It's more than just a numbers game....and that is very much true for fixed force too. When you create a treaty....you are basically forcing the other player to attack else where which is dictating their behaviour. However, knowing that treaties can be broken, you need to keep an eye out for when they might be broken and prep for it...always keep a small stack at strategic points. Don't accept a treaty assuming it will be followed....so keep one eye on it if you don't trust the player with the treaty....or just accept shorter treaties. Most of my treaties are only 5 rounds long.... :lollypop:
 

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What does real life have to do with anything? We're not playing the game of real life, we're playing Risk. And let me point out that Risk(TM) doesn't have diplos, and neither does (for instance) Dominating 12. Is it better or worse? I don't know, but don't present your opinion as fact, and real life has nothing to do with the rules of Risk. A game has rules, if you don't like the rules, play another game. Just like no added time in real games - is that good or bad? I agree it influences the gameplay, but it doesn't mean it's therefore a better gameplay.

Keep in mind, all the strategy that you cite regarding breakable diplos can be exceeded by the strategy required if diplos can't be broken. Imagine if diplos can't be broken, then you'd have to try to entice a 3rd player to break a diplo that you yourself can't break. That would be as interesting as anything you describe. All the mindgame stuff you cite can exist in an unbreakable diplo format.
 

periwinkle

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What does real life have to do with anything? We're not playing the game of real life, we're playing Risk. And let me point out that Risk(TM) doesn't have diplos, and neither does (for instance) Dominating 12. Is it better or worse? I don't know, but don't present your opinion as fact, and real life has nothing to do with the rules of Risk. A game has rules, if you don't like the rules, play another game. Just like no added time in real games - is that good or bad? I agree it influences the gameplay, but it doesn't mean it's therefore a better gameplay.

Keep in mind, all the strategy that you cite regarding breakable diplos can be exceeded by the strategy required if diplos can't be broken. Imagine if diplos can't be broken, then you'd have to try to entice a 3rd player to break a diplo that you yourself can't break. That would be as interesting as anything you describe. All the mindgame stuff you cite can exist in an unbreakable diplo format.


I was saying that in real life diplos are broken....and this site happens to be set up in away that diplos can be broken too... Everyone knows diplos can be broken....that's why there is a diplo rating too for each player...I'm merely saying just play accordingly...and to your point, if you don't like it, don't play and quit complaining about it. :lollypop:
 

Virtuoso

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I'm not complaining about anything. I thought this was a discussion. And I found holes in your argument.
 

Virtuoso

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OK - here's a thought experiment. It's not a complaint or a whine. I'm just asking people to think outside the box a bit, to what the corollary to this discussion would sound like. I'm just stating an argument here. No need to go tell me to to start my own site with my own rules.

Imagine a Risk-themed website: General Command.

GC is based on Risk, and entirely analogous to MC. Except, diplos are not breakable. One day, a forum thread comes up:

Title: Why can't I break diplos?
I keep getting into diplos that stop me from winning. I want to break diplos. It sux that on this site, I can't break diplos. Why should I be forced to abide by the diplos I agree to?
Yours truly, periwrinkle.


Q.E.D.




Edit: In such a scenario, there would be no need for a diplomacy score either.
 

periwinkle

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I'm not complaining about anything. I thought this was a discussion. And I found holes in your argument.

My point was to play accordingly....and I made suggestions on how I made it work. There is no argument to poke holes in, it's my strategy on how I deal with it and I'm happy to share it if it would help others. Take it for what it's worth. Clearly, you disagree and you don't think it would help you and you rather have the site changed. That's ok, you are entitled to your opinion. :lollypop:

So, if you really want no diplos, why aren't you part of the EOD clan? What are you waiting for? Go to the clan page (link below)....just message the clan admin. Luis is more than happy to accept you.

https://www.majorcommand.com/clans/45/
 

periwinkle

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OK - here's a thought experiment. It's not a complaint or a whine. I'm just asking people to think outside the box a bit, to what the corollary to this discussion would sound like. I'm just stating an argument here. No need to go tell me to to start my own site with my own rules.

Imagine a Risk-themed website: General Command.

GC is based on Risk, and entirely analogous to MC. Except, diplos are not breakable. One day, a forum thread comes up:

Title: Why can't I break diplos?
I keep getting into diplos that stop me from winning. I want to break diplos. It sux that on this site, I can't break diplos. Why should I be forced to abide by the diplos I agree to?
Yours truly, periwrinkle.


Q.E.D.




Edit: In such a scenario, there would be no need for a diplomacy score either.



:hahaha: bahahaha...you're funny...

….and it doesn't matter how the site is set up....someone will always complain....can't make everyone happy :lollypop:
 
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Virtuoso

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I play with diplos. I just wouldn't say I like them.

I wasn't even aware initially that they could be broken. I was in a game once, and I forgot about a diplo, and when I went to attack, the site reminded me that I was breaking it. That let me know that it was actually possible to break a diplo. I had thought an agreement was an agreement.

Anyways - a decision was made to allow diplos to be broken. I'm just saying that perhaps, the gameplay might be better if diplos weren't able to be broken. People would (you would think) be more careful about deciding to get into them. And actual diplomacy between players might be more meaningful/challenging. I'm just saying that just as there are arguments "for" breakable diplos, it is just as easy to come up with arguments "against" having breakable diplos. And THOSE arguments might actually be more intuitive.

Again, no big deal. I made the decision to play here, and I don't join EOD because I don't hate diplos. I just wouldn't say I like them. And I'd prefer if they were unbreakable because it means people are held to their word, which to me makes sense.
 
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