Angevin Empire

[Oggyyy]

Angevin Empire - France Map

***Please see Post 47 for latest update***

So, I have often toyed with the idea of making / coming up with a map for Majorcommand but never got round to it.

So here goes:

Majorcommand seems to love historic events, lots of maps focus on certain battles or time periods, so I thought I would put my idea out there.

I am very much guilty of lurking the map forums but never actually posting - that will now change! And over the years I have noticed for some reason France seems to be always refered to as a "bad map" - I plan to chsnge that!

I have created a map of the Angevin Empire - regions stylised in French of course - this map is circa 1154.

Now here comes the part where I would like some assitance from the masters of the maps.

I am not totally sure on the command bonuses - territory restrictions etc.

The Angevin Empire consisted of the Left side of the map, broken down in to the regional commands (the "red/orange" coloured regions) - the right side of the map (shades of blue) were controlled by the Louis the VII of France - and those "sworn" to him with the exception of Toulouse.

Before continuing with the design of this map - bringing it up to Majorcommand standards (styles, effects, etc) I am interested if anyone would like to see this map continue?

Please add your thoughts and comments as you see fit

Just for info:

Currently:
26 Regions

4 Commands + 1 Expansive Command

Commands:
Domaine Royal (Purple) - Features Split command - 3 regions (all seperated) +2
Duché d'Aquitaine (Orange) - 8 Regions +5
Vassuex du roi de France (Blue) - 8 Regions - Features Split command - Bauemont encased in Domaine Royal +5
Angevin - (Red) - 3 Regions +1

Angletterre, Bretagne, Normandie - all "belong" to the Angevin Empire - holding these in addition to Angevin = +4

Toulouse - probably needs breaking down into further regions, and to be a command itself

Command bonuses - see map/above - please comment
Sea travel - to be decided
Area restrictions (rivers/mountains) - to be added / determined

Also - please feel free to correct any historical mistakes!!

 

[OneEyed]

theme is very interesting.
the first thing from my mind, map could be larger with more regions. maybe also England could be added. also Ireland, Wales?



main idea and gameplay could be based on war between French and Angevin kingdoms. maybe any form of feudalism (commands) could be also added?

OneEyed

 

[Oggyyy]

theme is very interesting.
the first thing from my mind, map could be larger with more regions. maybe also England could be added. also Ireland, Wales?



main idea and gameplay could be based on war between French and Angevin kingdoms. maybe any form of feudalism (commands) could be also added?

OneEyed

Yes including England, Wales, Ireland Etc could certainly broaden the idea - I decided to focus on France as the main focal point but this could certainly add a different dynamic to the map

Thanks for the input!

 

[thenoahw]

We need to establish impassibles too. Even if the map gets no larger we have 26 territories with nothing dividing them. The best thing would be rivers for this since I dont know of any vast mountain ranges in western France.

If we include Ireland, England, maybe Scotland the channel and the waterways would do well. Or we could look further west (and back about 250 years and go for Charlemagne's Frankish Empire. It would include a lot of the same terts plus what is now Belgium, Netherlands, Rhineland, and Northern Italy. Then we have more rivers, the Alps, and the Ardennes Forest. plenty to break up the map.

But still, if we keep here around the 12th century then we need the rivers. I wouldn't mind another small map on the site, honestly; I like them. We just need to help with the impassibles.

Overall, I really like the map idea. Keep up the good work!

(Ive tacked on a blank map of western europe so you can see all the rivers I was thinking of and there's a map of Charlemagne's Empire too)

 

[Oggyyy]

Taking on board the brief comments so far - I have expanded the map to become the following (very much a work in progress)

I have included some region names as examples

The map is now 63 regions:

Broken down in to 10 commands

Each command contains one regional "city"

Each city will be split in to "2 halfs" - Each city to begin neutral - holding a whole city provides a +1 bonus.

Command sizes (including cities) - 4, 4, 4, 4, 9, 9, 7, 7, 4, 11 - see map for bonuses

Rivers have been included (some are not 100% accurate) and bridges placed preliminarily.

Again, without going to much in to the design what is everyone's thoughts on this map?

I would love some more feedback please!

 

[thenoahw]

I like the direction you're headed. The rivers are good. I don't have much else I'm qualified to talk on but so far I like the map. Good job

 

[Oggyyy]

Ok, so the regions have now been named with the exception of the cities - I need to do some research on this:

After casting an eye over this historically a route would also have existed from Cornwall to Basse Bretagne - I will add this later

 

[smi]

Wow, this is excellent quality! If i read it right, without cities bonuses:

_______________________________________________________
Ireland:         3 terr.	  2 borders	  +1	
_______________________________________________________
Wales :	         3 terr.	  3 borders	  +1	
_______________________________________________________
England:	 8 terr.	  4 borders	  +3	
_______________________________________________________
Brittany:	 3 terr.	  2 borders	  +1	
_______________________________________________________
Normandy:	 3 terr.	  2 borders	  +2	
_______________________________________________________
Royal Vassals :	10 terr.	  9 borders	  +4	
_______________________________________________________
Royal Domain :	 5 terr.	  5 borders	  +2	
_______________________________________________________
Angevin :	 4 terr.	  2 borders	  +1	
_______________________________________________________
Aquitaine :	10 terr.	  8 borders	  +5	
_______________________________________________________
Toulouse :	 3 terr.	  2 borders	  +1	
_______________________________________________________

 

[Oggyyy]

Wow, this is excellent quality! If i read it right, without cities bonuses:

Ireland: 3 terr. | 2 borders | +1
Wales : 3 terr. | 3 borders | +1
England: 8 terr. | 4 borders | +3
Brittany: 3 terr | 2 borders | +1
Normandy: 3 terr. | 2 borders | +2

Not quite - I might need to make the borders a bit clearer

Each "command" also must include the regional "city" (these will be split in to 2 regions - and added in the currently blank boxes) - so the commands now are as follows:

It was also apparent that command bonuses were perhaps lopsided - Thanks for highlighting this! roud:

So they have been changed to the following:

 

[riskyone]

Great job Oggyyy, I really like what you have done here.

 

[Oggyyy]

Great job Oggyyy, I really like what you have done here.

Thanks risky! - any noticeable errors you can see?

I am trying to think through the gameplay looking for bottlenecks / other problems but nothing is springing to mind yet.

I will add in the city regions next

 

[OneEyed]

the map looks nice.
about story, there is not shown Angevin empire. there are just commands, but empire is "invisible".
as french has royal domain and vassals, also english (plantaganets) could have the same. and entire map could be setup as battle between them and as vassalage.
I am not sure if cities is the best idea as they are made. the "free" space around france could be used for offset box where could be french royal domain enlarged.
about half of ireland was vassals of english, but rest of ireland was irish. england, normandy, main could be royal domain of english, while the rest of angevin empire could be vassals.

OneEyed

 

[Oggyyy]

the map looks nice.
about story, there is not shown Angevin empire. there are just commands, but empire is "invisible".
as french has royal domain and vassals, also english (plantaganets) could have the same. and entire map could be setup as battle between them and as vassalage.
I am not sure if cities is the best idea as they are made. the "free" space around france could be used for offset box where could be french royal domain enlarged.
about half of ireland was vassals of english, but rest of ireland was irish. england, normandy, main could be royal domain of english, while the rest of angevin empire could be vassals.

OneEyed

Interesting perspective - the way I tried to set it out was to balance the "Angevin + Plateganets" - for all intents and purposes, the "Angevin Empire" and the French "Royal Domain and Vassals"

Then the "Nuetral Commands"

When you combine the "empires" commands as a whole:

Angevin Commands = +19
French = +10
Ireland = +2
Toulouse = +2

As a whole the map is set in 1154 at the "peak" of the "Empire" - I could slightly change the colours to better reflect this, and place a more prominent "border" around the area as a whole to highlight the "Empire" better

I will try and think what other people think regarding making the blank space enlarged commands like you say - as this will change the map in a different direction

 

[smi]

I like a lot the styling of the map as it is! Also the squares could be used for drawings of the cities at that age which will give a very very nice flavour in the map imo!

I like a lot the fact that the map feels "spacey" without being overwhelmed by info and special rules boxes!

 

[Oggyyy]

...

Also the squares could be used for drawings of the cities at that age which will give a very very nice flavour in the map imo!

...

That is exactly what they will be for

 

[LordAdef]

Hey Oggyyy,

I am amazed by how many talented people we have here! You and OneEyed are certainly invaluable new map creators in the Map Studio.

I express here my wish to have one map from you guys really soon!

 

[Oggyyy]

Ok so here is what a city will look like

Each city will be hand drawn to give a rough representation at the time

Paris (as the first example) is split by the river - giving the two "city" regions - these will begin as Nuetral (3)

Hey Oggyyy,

I am amazed by how many talented people we have here! You and OneEyed are certainly invaluable new map creators in the Map Studio.

I express here my wish to have one map from you guys really soon!

Thanks LA roud:

 

[Sebrim]

Lovely, Oggyyy - I like

However, I'm jsut concerned that it is difficult to see how f.x. Paris fits into the main picture. Is the territory called 'domaine royal' a single territory spanning both shores of the Seine? And does the territory called Beaumont border only with Domaine Royal or also with Paris, and which side of Paris? In the picture of Paris, the Seine looks like it's a South-to-North river, while on the main map it definitely flows from the East to the West....

Do you understand my concern? It just needs to be clear, which regions border what.

 

[Oggyyy]

Lovely, Oggyyy - I like

However, I'm jsut concerned that it is difficult to see how f.x. Paris fits into the main picture. Is the territory called 'domaine royal' a single territory spanning both shores of the Seine? And does the territory called Beaumont border only with Domaine Royal or also with Paris, and which side of Paris? In the picture of Paris, the Seine looks like it's a South-to-North river, while on the main map it definitely flows from the East to the West....

Do you understand my concern? It just needs to be clear, which regions border what.

Indeed that is exactly the feedback I have been looking for!

I think I need to redraw the borders in that region to make it clearer - my initial intention was for Paris to border Beaumont to the north and Domaine Royal to the west and east - the Seine running through Domaine Royal.

So yes that is a very good point - the next time I update the map I will tweak that region to clarify.

I will also add these regions to the small city map to make the borders a bit clearer.

Of course please feel free to add in your opinion if these regions should border other regions differently?

 

[Oggyyy]

Ok, so big thanks to Sebrim - hopefully this makes it a little clearer:

OneEyed also expressed a desire to show the "Empire" - I have tried to express this by the red borders - this is purely cosmetic and can be changed if it doesn't quite suite the flavour of the map

I have also tweaked the command colours slightly, and renamed them in French

I have been thinking a little about this:

Currently there will be 43 starting regions + 20 neutrals - It seems like it would make a lot of sense to add in 5 regions somewhere....as 48 is a magic number for team and larger games...

48 / 24 = 2 starting regions
48 / 12 = 4 starting regions
48 / 10 = 4 starting regions + 8 additional nuetrals
48 / 9 = 5 starting regions + 3 additional nuetrals
48 / 8 = 6 starting regions
48 / 7 = 6 starting regions + 6 additional nuetrals
48 / 6 = 8 starting regions
48 / 5 = 9 starting regions + 3 additional nuetrals
48 / 4 = 12 starting regions
48 / 3 = 16 starting regions
48 / 2 = 24 starting regions